New to the site

[BigPapaBear]

Hello everyone new to the site, I'm very impressed by the wealth of knowledge found on this site. I have been visiting for a while now and just playing around grinding profiles and such on old axe files I found laying around. Just practicing the stock removal on something other then a good piece of steel I'm going to buy next i don't know what kind yet. I'm currently working on a throwing knife, because I figure they're simple for a new comer just basically get the shape symmetrical and then i can play around with the tempering and test it out and not feel bad about breaking a nice knife with a handle. lol

And more exciting news I got the go ahead from the wife to spend my money on some more tools to further my knife making work. lol So i already have a grinder and I like working with hand files but I'm thinking a belt sander would be a good addition, or one of them combo belt and disk sander.

Any tips on what tools a newbie should get first?

Thank you to all on here, very nice work, even the newbies posting some great first knives. Making me not want to post my first, it's nothing like those yet lol.

[ckluftinger]

Welcome to the site, big papa bear. there's no such thing as a bad first knife. Just finishing it is an achievement in itself, so don't be shy! As far as tools go, there are much more experienced makers on this forum than I will EVER be, but I know my toys - I mean tools. i started with nothing special, just a power drill, a belt sander (not the one mounted on a bench, but the one you have races with), some files and sand paper. I had a hack saw and an angle grinder, too. I made six swords and three daggers before I considerd making this a "serious" hobby... I still don't have what I would consider luxurious tools, but they do the job. Good quality files are going to save you some frustration (only some)... My best advice would be to start making a knife. You'll soon find out what tools you are really missing, then add on as you can afford them, and as you find that you need them. (Wait until you start making sheaths. Leather work is a whole other ball game - and another set of tools!) After some three years of controlled insanity i now own a lathe, mill, welder, two forges, two anvils (WHY??), about a dozen hammers, twice as many tongs, more files than I can count, a belt grinder, two bench grinders, hydraulic press, table saw, router, drill press, AND all the tools any self-respecting handyman would have anyway, and i still find at LEAST one tool every week end I don't have yet, and wonder how I ever got along without it... Have fun! That's what counts.

[Richard Glenn]

I'll take that second anvil if you're really frustrated 'bout having it you know...

Welcome to the site. I'm still rather new and haven't even finished my first knife yet but what I have done has led me to a very important thing.. Make sure you can Heat Treat your knife, if you can't you'll end up with a nice looking piece of steel that won't do anything..

[Ed Tipton]

BigPapaBear...I believe that most knifemakers start off in life as as wannabe blacksmiths. As a blacksmith, you have a God given right to make your own tools....more than a right...it's an expectation and even an obligation to the trade!
Seriously, the suggestion to just start making knives and buy on an as-needed basis is probably the best advice you can get. Without knowing your budget restraints, and your skill level, it's almost impossible for anyone else to guide you in this. If you are the strict traditionalist type, then you might be happy with a simple forge, a hammer, one or two files, a can of water, a can of oil, and something to start a fire with. If you're more the modern type, then you might be interested in starting off with a two or three burner propane forge and a KMG grinder and a heat treating oven for starters. More than likely....you're somewhere in between these two extreems....and only you know where that is.
For the majority of newbies, I would recommend a single burner propane forge, a small toaster oven, a small angle grinder with an assortment of discs and cutting wheels, a chop saw is handy, a metal cutting saw of some type is handy, vise grips, files, tongs, hammers, vise, anvil, and the general assorted hand tools normally found in a metal working shop. Probably the single most expensive piece of equipment in your special tool inventory will be your belt grinder, and the assorted belts that go with it. Many people have done quite well with the smaller 1 x 42 type belt sanders, and some have even used the 4 x 36 Craftsman belt type sanders, and if you already have one of those I'd use that for now....but if you decide to get serious about knifemaking, you'll want a more serious 2 x 72" grinder in the not too distant future...something like a KMG or a Bader and those will set you back a few bucks, but they might be a bit much for you to think on for fight now.
This list is of course not all inclusive, but is just meant to give you some idea as to what you might want to have on hand for starters. You could, or course, get by with much less. If you're the DIY type, you've probably already got most of this stuff already, and probably shouldn't need to add too much. As has already been said, once you start, you'll figure out what you need and don't already have on hand.

[Crex]

Ed's nailed it pretty good.
One suggestion - fill out your profile, you may be really close to another maker and a chance to get some up close and personal instruction, assistance, inspiration, etc. Can really help with the learning curve.
Additional advice - take the temper out of the files you plan to use for throwing knives. Way too brittle and will shatter or chip when hitting the wrong thing (rock, nail, metal, etc) creating a flying shrapnel potential. Most quality throwing knives are actually heattreated to be "softer" for safety reasons. Some are not HT'd at all.

[ckluftinger]

R Pope,
My wife said "why do you need two anvils, you can only use one at a time", so I said the same about her shoes. Argument settled...
I was looking for a decent anvil for so long that when two of them came along at the same time, I bought them both - just in case - in case I wear one of them out?? Lose one??? Break one??? I dunno...

[BigPapaBear]

Originally Posted by Ed Tipton

BigPapaBear...I believe that most knifemakers start off in life as as wannabe blacksmiths. As a blacksmith, you have a God given right to make your own tools....more than a right...it's an expectation and even an obligation to the trade!
Seriously, the suggestion to just start making knives and buy on an as-needed basis is probably the best advice you can get. Without knowing your budget restraints, and your skill level, it's almost impossible for anyone else to guide you in this. If you are the strict traditionalist type, then you might be happy with a simple forge, a hammer, one or two files, a can of water, a can of oil, and something to start a fire with. If you're more the modern type, then you might be interested in starting off with a two or three burner propane forge and a KMG grinder and a heat treating oven for starters. More than likely....you're somewhere in between these two extreems....and only you know where that is.
For the majority of newbies, I would recommend a single burner propane forge, a small toaster oven, a small angle grinder with an assortment of discs and cutting wheels, a chop saw is handy, a metal cutting saw of some type is handy, vise grips, files, tongs, hammers, vise, anvil, and the general assorted hand tools normally found in a metal working shop. Probably the single most expensive piece of equipment in your special tool inventory will be your belt grinder, and the assorted belts that go with it. Many people have done quite well with the smaller 1 x 42 type belt sanders, and some have even used the 4 x 36 Craftsman belt type sanders, and if you already have one of those I'd use that for now....but if you decide to get serious about knifemaking, you'll want a more serious 2 x 72" grinder in the not too distant future...something like a KMG or a Bader and those will set you back a few bucks, but they might be a bit much for you to think on for fight now.
This list is of course not all inclusive, but is just meant to give you some idea as to what you might want to have on hand for starters. You could, or course, get by with much less. If you're the DIY type, you've probably already got most of this stuff already, and probably shouldn't need to add too much. As has already been said, once you start, you'll figure out what you need and don't already have on hand.

That is a great list of tools, I have a good chunk of the tools right now such as your typical tools, then for knife making i have some different shaped files, many chainsaw files, i just bought a 6inch grinder and after supper we were going shopping for a belt sander, the 2-72 the guy at the stores says they dont hear much of them around here, he knows of 1-48. 4-48, 6-48 but not the 2 is that like a specialty grinder?

Originally Posted by Crex

Ed's nailed it pretty good.
One suggestion - fill out your profile, you may be really close to another maker and a chance to get some up close and personal instruction, assistance, inspiration, etc. Can really help with the learning curve.
Additional advice - take the temper out of the files you plan to use for throwing knives. Way too brittle and will shatter or chip when hitting the wrong thing (rock, nail, metal, etc) creating a flying shrapnel potential. Most quality throwing knives are actually heattreated to be "softer" for safety reasons. Some are not HT'd at all.

Yea iv'e been meaning to getting around to the profile, I keep getting distracted by all the beautiful work on the site. But I understand there could be an experienced member just down the road. lol

The tempering of the files as of right now is this, nothing special actually i'm sure it's totally wrong bu here goes. Last summer around a camp fire I threw them into the coals and collected them the next day when they had cooled, I made sure no water was thrown on the fire and they cooled gradually. So they currently are soft, or annealed i think it's called not to sure. Now my question is this for a thrower would you guys harden just the tip then take some of the hardness out, do the whole blade or just leave it soft so it really doesn't chip anywhere. I left the edges a littler thicker so they dont chip and the tip is really all im making narrower not really sharp.

Originally Posted by ckluftinger

R Pope,
My wife said "why do you need two anvils, you can only use one at a time", so I said the same about her shoes. Argument settled...

That's awesome, thank you guys for the tips, on everything even dealing with the wife and tools lol. I'll be working on my thrower a bit more tonight and ill take some pics to show you guys kinda where i'm at on my first one.

[Ray Rogers]

You won't find a 2x72" in just any old hardware store. There are some models like Wilton that you might come across in some place that sold industrial power tools or the Grizzly if you have one of their outlets nearby but, generally, you're not going to find one. And, you absolutely, positively, want one! You might do a few things with the more common sizes you mentioned but in less than a month you'll know that isn't really what you need.

Bottom line: 2x72 grinders are professional machines, they are powerful, versatile, and every conceivable style of belt and accessory is available for them (not true on most other size grinders). The Grizzly is the least expensive I know of at around $600, there are a couple of others usually sold without motors that run up to about $1000 but most ready to go units will be in the $2000 range. Get some catalogs from knife supply houses and maybe a copy of Blade magazine or Knives Illustrated and you can see quite a few models that way. In the end, you'll probably want a KMG, you can see that at beaumontmetalworks.com

An alternative is to build your own, many guys do. Plans are available for a couple of different designs ....

[Crex]

Chris
Your wife got a small closet or something?

[BigPapaBear]

So if I were to build my own i'll still be looking at a bit of $$ for one of them 2-72". Now what are the main reasons as knife makers you prefer a 2-72" and not the other ones around like the 1-42" or 4-42"?

Sorry this question is probably already answered multiple times in the forum.

[Ed Tipton]

BigPapaBear...The main reason for the 2 x 72" grinder is actually several reasons. The two inch wide belt design just lends itself nicely to knifemaking. the size is easy to work with and it just makes things easier. In addition to that, the 2 x 72 has long been the standard for knifemakers, and so there are many accessories built specifically for those grinders just to accomodate us knifemakers ...not to mention there is a much wider assortment of belt grits and types such as al/ox, ceramic, etc. that simply are not available for the other sander/grinders. Also, the quality, and tracking features of the 2 x 72 machines are far superior to the other machines on the market.
As I mentioned in my earlier posting, if you really get into knifemaking, you will definitely want to get one... but if you are not yet committed to this hobby, then they are probably too expensive to just have sitting around for general sanding duty. Think of them as a high end specialized grinder specifically built for bladesmith work...and probably too good of a machine to be used for everyday use in an all-around shop environment.
In the end, the only thing you can do with a 2 x 72" grinder that you can't do with a file is screw up a good blade faster.....but you can have more fun doing it!!!

[ckluftinger]

Originally Posted by Crex

Chris
Your wife got a small closet or something?

No, but a peg leg - just kidding, of course. My wife and I soon learned to give each other the leeway to just accept the things we don't understand - her, my tools - me, her clothes, shoes, fashion accessories for the house (dust collectors - doh, here I go again!). It's all good...

[BigPapaBear]

Originally Posted by Ed Tipton

In the end, the only thing you can do with a 2 x 72" grinder that you can't do with a file is screw up a good blade faster.....but you can have more fun doing it!!!

Thats usually why i stick to hand tools, i get to impatient and screw something up trying to go fast with power tools. That for me applies to everything not just knifemaking lol.

But for now I think im going to go with a 4-42 of the 1-42 until i get better at the hobbie and feel i can expand my skill set more on a 2-72 then i'll get one. Knowing how the wife and I usually support our hobbies is with our hobbies, so she's gonna want me to probably find a way to sale some knives once i get good to buy a 2-72 lol

[BigPapaBear]

Originally Posted by ckluftinger

No, but a peg leg - just kidding, of course. My wife and I soon learned to give each other the leeway to just accept the things we don't understand - her, my tools - me, her clothes, shoes, fashion accessories for the house (dust collectors - doh, here I go again!). It's all good...

First year of marriage for us, still learning all that lol probably gonna be a few more years till we learn it good

[Crex]

Been trying to match my bride's shoe collection - one anvil per pair, but she's kinda pulled ahead the last 39 years! (still, I got a few hidden out in the shed for special occasions, she doesn't know about)

BPB - You can screw up just as much metal with a 1 x 42 as you can with a 2 x 72, just takes a little longer. If at all possible visit someone's shop who has a 2 x 72 and give it a spin. They are just a tool in the "tool box". Have to work on the patience thing and put impulse in the closet.