money to burn

[terence]

ok ive got some cash to burn and am going to build a proper propane forge. wheres a good place to buy insawool, and burner parts? i was looking at the z burner or something simmilar. some place in canada would be nice just so i dont get burnt on shipping and custom fees.

[Doug Lester]

You should be able to get the parts that you need to make your burner at a hardware store, assuming that you have them in Canada the way we have them in the States. A blown burner is not that hard to build. I've built a couple and I'm not that mechanically inclined. A venturi burner will require more drilling and tapping. Inswool, or equivalent, you could might be able to find at a shop that deals in pottery kilns. You could probably find a high temperature mortar to coat the Inswool with. You will need a POL fitting, and adjustable regulator, and a pressure gauge, with hose and connections. You will also need a ball valve on the burner end of the line for an emergency cut off and lighting the forge. If you have a blown burner a needle valve is just about essential.

I generally get what I can't find locally at High Temperature Tools and Refractory. That's on my side of the border but I don't know of any equivalent places on your side.

Doug

[terence]

I'm gonna make the burner. Now I just need to find some insawool and some high temp mortar. I did a google search but didn't come up with much. I know I had some bookmarked on my old computer but I can't seem to find them again.

[Ray Rogers]

You can get ceramic blanket (Inswool, Kaowool, etc) from eBay and probably from any place that sells wood stoves or commercial heating units, check your phone book. You want 1" thick wool rated for 2700 F if possible. The 2300 F wool will work too but you'll have to replace it more often. The high temp mortar can be found at the same places, Satanite would be desirable but any furnace repair cement could be used .

Blown burners are the way to go, as Doug said. There are some pretty good pictures of the one I built on my website if you need to see one ....

[EdStreet]

Ok one of the best places to buy forge materials from is http://www.hightemptools.com/index.html

As for the burner itself goes I would highly suggest you call rex at http://hybridburners.com/

I have a T-rex and it's superb. Not all burners are the same even if they look of similar design.

[Doug Lester]

You could go down to the Knife Making Organizations and Clubs on this site and click on Canadian Knife Maker's Organization and ask the guys there if they know any sources in Canada.

As far as a blower goes you will need a centrifugal blower, full time operation, with 60cfm minimum output. The first blower that it got was 60cfm and I have to run it wide open and it's didn't give me enough air to run my larger forge to welding temperature. It's ok for my smaller forging forge, it's fire chamber is like 4" in diameter by 7" deep. The second blower that I go was for a bounce house and I have no idea about it's output other than it's way over 60cfm. I use a gate valve where I attach the air hose to regulate air flow. I'm thinking about trying it on the smaller forge to see if I can improve the performance. I was retuning the small forge after rebuilding it and I discovered that it has a very narrow operation range for gas flow. Hopefully I can get more performance out of it with more air flow. I got both of them through Ebay. Both of them were sold at a fixed price which turned out to be cheaper than others that I was out bid for.

Doug

[EdStreet]

At the risk of starting a forced air vs Venturi debate I will have to add that the burner I posted is a HYBRID burner and outperforms many forced air burners in many ways. The burner I have I use around 2 1/2 - 3 psi and internal temps reach 1900F in no time, about 7-8 minutes.

[Ray Rogers]

3 psi is good, 3 to 5 psi being fairly standard operating pressure for a forced air burner while venturi designs usually run in the 11 to 15 psi range. For forging a blade 1500 - 1900 might do but for a damascus billet more is much better. How fast your forge will reach forging temps has at least as much to do with the forge volume and the mass of the insulation in the forge as it does with the type of burner. Almost any forge and burner combo will reach 1500 F within a few minutes because the burning propane is about that hot. How long it takes to get past that point is directly tied to how many BTUs your burner can provide, how well the insulation works, forge volume, and how much mass there is to soak the heat ....

[Doug Lester]

Fine, no doubt that it's good burner that will meet most needs at a reasonable fuel cost but can a person build one on his own? Can they build a blown burner or another style of venturi burner for less? Are they in an environment where they might not always, or ever, have power to run a blower? How adjustable is it? Can it run a forge from under 1600 degrees to over 2000 degrees? All these are factors to consider when choosing a burner design. Also forge body design has as much, or maybe more, to do with operating temperatures and time to temperature than the burner. Even though I favor blown burners, there is no one burner style that will meed all needs under all conditions, including cost. I've seen other venturi/hybrid burners that are highly rated but cost more than I spend building an entire forge that works just as well as anything I could build with those burners.

Doug

[EdStreet]

Good point. I have melted silver in 4 minutes from a cold forge with my t-rex.



Also this speaks for itself.



The meter is temp reading in F.


http://hybridburners.com/products.html#trex This is not your typical venturi burner by no means.

http://www.jhbladesmith.com/en/tutor...e-welding.html Forge Welding - Jesus Hernandez


The real beauty of this burner is very little scale, no electricity needed, very little oxygen inside the chamber and no unburned gas to vent or deal with.

T-Rex Burner with sliding choke and stainless steel nozzle....... $150 ea.
Burner comes standard with sliding choke. Revolving choke by special request. Contact me for a quote.

Shipping and handling.......................................... .......... $12.75 for first burner, $4.50 for each additional burner in the order.

[EdStreet]

Originally Posted by Doug Lester

Fine, no doubt that it's good burner that will meet most needs at a reasonable fuel cost but can a person build one on his own? Can they build a blown burner or another style of venturi burner for less? Are they in an environment where they might not always, or ever, have power to run a blower? How adjustable is it? Can it run a forge from under 1600 degrees to over 2000 degrees? All these are factors to consider when choosing a burner design. Also forge body design has as much, or maybe more, to do with operating temperatures and time to temperature than the burner. Even though I favor blown burners, there is no one burner style that will meed all needs under all conditions, including cost. I've seen other venturi/hybrid burners that are highly rated but cost more than I spend building an entire forge that works just as well as anything I could build with those burners.

Doug

On the testings I was able to hold it steady at 800F, so yes it can hold it steady under 1600f to well over 2k, Hernandez reported some type of melting graphite/carbon with his.

I am not sure that it is possible to build a better forced air burner for cheaper than this one is.

[Doug Lester]

I don't think that I have a whole lot more than $150 dollars in both my forges together even when you figure in the cost of the blower and I'm sure that there are blowers that can be scrounged for less than what I paid for mine. I'm certain that the T-Rex is a good burner but I just can't justify the cost.

Doug

[paul savage]

"Pottery supply house in Oakville ontario has the blanket, coloidal rigidizer to spray on as well as refractory mortar and kiln shelf material if you need it. Their web site is www.pshcanada.com. Indian George rebbelo has a good forge building tutorial on his website which is the same as my forge and is simple , reasonably inexpensive and very efficient. the link to it is elliscustomknifeworks.hightemptools.com/ForgeGallery/.../Page11.ht... Most of the burner parts are just 1 1/2" black pipe fittings. Good luck on the build