Newbie buffer question

[Stormcrow]

All right, at risk of becoming annoying, given how useful the grinding belt thread was to me and other people, how about buffing compounds? What do the various colors translate into as far as materials to be used on and finesness of grit?

Thanks, guys!

[Drac]

I'm not sure I can give you a lot of info on the different types of compounds as all I use is the green chrome.

I am assuming that between the two questions you are fairly new? If not please let me know. I would like to put out a caution for the use of a buffer. It is universally considered the most dangerous tool in a shop. You can get the knife caught in it and have thrown very easily. Had it happen to me several times, luckily so far the worst that happen was a ruined knife. It can be a whole lot worse.

Also over use of a buffer is one of the most common newbie mistakes. Everyone wants to come in and make that mirrored knife blade. Problems are that mirrored knife blades don't hold up well to use before they look bad. They show the slightest scratch or abrasion. Also over buffing washes out you nice grind lines and will undercut your bolsters and pins where the wood wears faster than the metal. A lot of newbies use it as a crutch to try and get to the finish faster with less hand sanding. While I've eard of people who find sanding soothing and relaxing most of us find it a chore. In Geno's video on the hunter he covers hand sanding very well and is worth the investment.

A nice hand rubbed finish is way better in the long run. I just use the buffer to bring out the better aspect of the handles. A quick buff, maybe less than a minute, and you have a nice finish on the wood. You can also get a nice finish on most woods by just sanding to higher grits. I prefer a quick buff after 600-1000. For pearl and the like a quick buff brings out the fire in it. again just a few seconds does the trick.

Jim

[Geno]

I use the buffer as little as possible, it rounds the corners I worked so hard for, it slurrs the finish, plus I like damascus as my medium to work with.
I use a white compound almost exclusively, white does not cut or color.
Hand sand to 600 grit and buff lightly, not 200 grit and heavy buff.
The different colored compounds are different grits, white is no grit (polish only).

Hand sanding gives a hand made look, buffing is a machine process and looks like it too.
Besides dangerous, buffing is overused and can detract value in your hard work.
Use it little, with much discression and more caution, please.
Buffing is the quickest way to hurt yourself in the shop.

A note on our videos (CCIV)...
Almost every question that gets asked here, gets answered in these lessons we promote.
This video library is our legacy to the next generation of knifemakers and we made them for ANY level of knifemaking.
The kit knife videos will start you making good knives-correctly.
Next the grinding videos, forging, sculpting, filework, even sheaths are covered.
You can make your own folders from scratch, almost anything you want, but one step at a time is still the best way to get somewhere.

[Ray Rogers]

There are compounds for steel, wood, and non-steel metals. There are compounds for carbon steels and stainless steels, for heavy scratch removal (don't waste your time with these), for polishing steel, and for final finish (cloud removal) on steel, for polishing wood and plastic, and for final finishing plastic. There are greasless compounds, compounds with a grease base, aluminum based compounds, and a million others no doubt. I have tried a large portion of all these and finally settled on a couple that work for me which is pretty much what those who responded above seem to be suggesting. The best way that I would answer the question you asked is to suggest you get a catalog from each of the major knife supply houses. They all sell compounds and they each have their own selections and the catalogs explain in depth what each compound is intended to do. I finally settled on four compounds I like, two for metal which I use very little, and two for wood/plastic. Each pair is a fine polish followed by a finishing compound. Neither is used until all the scratches are sanded out.

Bottom line: as the others said, don't bother to polish your blade, buff the handle as little as possible, be very careful with the buffer ......

[Rick McGee]

Again Stormcrow brings up a question I never would have thought to ask. Had it not been for this thread, I'd be working to 6-800 grit then buffing every blade. Now under the advice of some names I have come to hold in high respect, That ain't gonna happen.
Actually comes as a great relief. I am understandably scared of the buffer. I've used the one at work and had it take more than one part from me with a vengence. Now I refuse to use it. A 12 inch loose buff can grab in a hurry and minor scratches in machined parts are better than chips and cracks in a part with a shiny finish, not to mention the potential for personal injury.

[Drac]

The key is respect not fear. You'll tighten up and that makes things dangerous.

That's the first thing. Second is to get rid of the loose buff. Get a spiral or concentric sewn wheel, I like concentric. I started using buffers in jewelry class in school and we rarely used the loose and than only the advance students.

Another thing is as was mentioned is a light touch. Like belts the abrasive is suppose to do the work. I apply compound every couple minutes at least. Pushing doesn't make it work any better and is going to increase your likely hood of injury. I don't know if they at your shop ever showed you how to use the buffer? Things like using the bottom of the wheel, not turning edges toward the wheel? always work the edge so that it is below the center line and away from the wheel. Never have it above the center and never on the top moving down. These are two positions the will allow for a grab and throw.

Jim

[Rick McGee]

Well no, he never showed me much. Most was just common sense. The part in question was an acrylic cylinder, closed on one end. 1 1/4 in dia. Boss would like to have the bottom look like glass.
On a part that small, it's tough not to cross the centerline and catch the near edge on the buff and there goes the part. making the parts in the first place only has a 75% yeild and the first and only time I tried the buff I had it down to 25% before I said the heck with this. I found I could get better results and zero scrap by putting them in the lathe and using polishing compound. One scraped peice easily pays for the extra time.

[Stormcrow]

Thanks again, guys.

Drac, actually, I've been making knives in a hobby capacity for years, but I am starting to sell them and have stepped up my machinery quite a bit. I just figured it was time to step up in that knowledge that I had been missing out on. But the two questions are on a newbie level, even if I've been making knives for years.

I've used buffers a bit, but mostly just using rouge and white compound I inherited from my father. As y'all have said, it's mostly just for a few minutes on the handle that I polish, with just a bit on the blade.

Ray, so far all I have is the Jantz catalogue, and it tends to give the helpful explanation of what color the compound is.

Ok, as a specific question pertaining to an upcoming paying job, is there a particular compund for working black paper Micarta?

[Drac]

I've been making knives for about 10 years and I don't see the end of my newbie status anytime soon. there is so much to learn and so much to try.

Green chrome or the white Geno mentioned will both do a good job. Just remember that you will need a new wheel for either.

If you have rouge and a white compound I would guess they are either jewelry grade or from a kit like you can get from Sears. I used both over the years in jewelry and than knife making. The jewelry grade ones are ok for metal but I don't care for them on handle materials. The Sears ones (just an opinion) are not good for anything. I like (again just an opinion) green chrome for an all around polish. It will buff most handle materials but since most of mine are either stabilized or synthetics like micarta it works. It also does a decent job on the bolsters on the occasion I want to polish them.

For unstabilized woods, pearl and gem stone I prefer the white compound without the abrasive.

If your getting good results with what you've been using go for it. Just as different techniques in grinding make different belts work better for different people different buffing techniques work better with different compounds. Give others a try, you might find some you like better or you might find you like what you've been working with. Unfortunately unlike belts there's an added cost of a new buff with each new one. I would recommend (surprise) the green and white as a starting point. Some people have had good results with the pink with synthetics but I keep coming back to the other two.

Jim

[Ray Rogers]

See if you can get a catalog from Sheffield and from K&G. For black paper Micarta, I specifically like K&G's White Diamond compound followed by their No Scratch Pink ...

[smithy]

Originally Posted by Drac

The key is respect not fear. You'll tighten up and that makes things dangerous.

That's the first thing. Second is to get rid of the loose buff. Get a spiral or concentric sewn wheel, I like concentric. I started using buffers in jewelry class in school and we rarely used the loose and than only the advance students.

Another thing is as was mentioned is a light touch. Like belts the abrasive is suppose to do the work. I apply compound every couple minutes at least. Pushing doesn't make it work any better and is going to increase your likely hood of injury. I don't know if they at your shop ever showed you how to use the buffer? Things like using the bottom of the wheel, not turning edges toward the wheel? always work the edge so that it is below the center line and away from the wheel. Never have it above the center and never on the top moving down. These are two positions the will allow for a grab and throw.

Polishing compounds can be divided into two types. The first type has a cutting action and will remove metal like ,named white diamond, pumice, or tripoli, etc.. The second type have a "smearing action the does not remove metal, but rather burnishes the metal. The type of compound used can"color" (richer, deeper, etc.) the metal.

The type and speed of the buff itself can make a difference. Grind lines can quickly disappear using the wrong buff and compound. Buffs come in all sizes and shapes felt, chamois, cotton (with sizes from 10" on down in tapered , ball. and flat) are a few that come to mind.The problem is I have never polished regular steel, but I have 35 years of polishing gold, silver, and platinum (talk about a bitch ).

One of the problems is that there is no color standard for the industry. One mfg. cutting compound might be anothers buffing compound. Grab the wrong buff or compound and you can make yourself HOURS of work making it right. Ask me how I know

About me, I'm newer than new at this forum and still trying to do my homework. I'm closing my studio of 25 years and am going into knife making as a hobby when I retire June 30. In the research I've done so far I think I have all the tools for grinding blades, but I have no room for one of those big sanding belt machine. As soon as I get to the polishing part, I will post what buff, compound, and technique I use to polish. Until then, if anyone has any specific questions please ask and I will try to answer.

BTW Drac was dead on about buffer safety. Absolutely never wear gloves while working on a buffing machine, keep long hair pulled back, and don't wear anything around your neck that can get caught in a spinning buff. If you are polishing something that gets real hot, real quick wear finger "cots". These are like fingers that to the middle knuckle. No chance of the buff pulling your hand into the machine when wearing these.

[EdStreet]

BLACK = Emery Compound, a course abrasive material for removal of scratches, pits, paint,
rust etc.
BROWN = Tripoli compound used for general purpose cut and color on most soft metals.
WHITE = Blizzard compound, used for color and final finish of harder metals, has a cutting action.
RED = Jeweller?s Rouge, designed to polish without any cutting action. Safe on thin plates. Use
on its own wheel.
BLUE = A dryer, almost greaseless wheel - designed to polish without any cutting action. Safe
on thin plates. Use on its own wheel.
GREEN = Used exclusively for Stainless Steel.

THE THREE BUFFING STAGES
A = Rough Cut To Remove Scratches
B = Final Cut & Initial Polish - At Stage B, you should first use your wheel with a cutting action, then finish with a color action.
C = Final Polish (or luster)

All that aside I use a non sewn white wheel with Brownell's 555 grey

Want to know what holds up better, looks better, and works better than buffing? Very fine bead blasting the blade.