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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-29-2014, 09:07 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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2x72 Belts

I know this has been asked and I have read a variety of opinions. However its seems there are always new products out there so here goes:

On Friday I am ordering a KMG grinder with 10" wheel, 2hp, VS. Small wheels, extra arm, etc.. Took a while but I wore the boss down on the issue and she finally relented!

I contacted KMG and they are ready to ship so I should be in business soon. However, I need to get a stock of belts prior so I am ready when the grinder is here and in place. Of course I still have to weld up a stand but that wont take long.

So, I am asking for your wisdom here on belts. I know folks have different preferences on brands and grits and types. So, if you have a few minutes could you comment on the belts you stock and perhaps any comments on why you use that particular belt?

I read things like, "I use this belt on G10 handles as it does not clog up as badly". Things of this nature that a complete newbie would not know.

Right now I am thinking of 3 grits of Norton Blaze, maybe some more flexible belts, scotchbrite? I am planning mostly flat grinds on 1084 for the next dozen knives if that makes any difference.

Any great deals out there? Preferred supplier? Random belt advice is appreciated.

Thanks much in advance. Wade (Belgrade, MT).
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  #2  
Old 10-29-2014, 09:35 AM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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I buy the bulk of my belts from Tru-Grit.

The coarsest grit I use is 60. I stock a few Norton ceramic 'Hoggers' (wasn't as impressed with the Blaze belts). I use these for thick sections of high alloy steels.

I also stock J-Flex belts in 120, 220, and 400 grits.

The majority of my belts are plain ol' Hermes AO--cheap and hard working. I stock them in 60, 120, 220, 320 (a few), 400, and 600.

I stock specialty belts in 1200 and 2000 (maybe a few 800s)

I have a few other 'trick' belts like cork, etc.

I've been a big fan of Scotchbrite belts for years. They are expensive, but I've been using the same one for 9 years.

Beware of zirconia belts. They cut well for a short while, but loose their bite quickly.

The best belt advice I ever got was from Bob Loveless (via his book). Doing a quick bevel before flat grinding will protect from shearing off the grit before it can get any work done. Moral of the story: How you use it is the more important factor.


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  #3  
Old 10-29-2014, 09:43 AM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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You will find as many answers here as there are makers. One that most will agree on is that you will need a ceramic 36 grit for your rough grinding. I have tried many and prefer the
984 Cubitron II by 3M. (http://popsupply.bizhosting.com/3m_2...i_ceramic.html) These are a x-weight belt or stiff belt. When I was a beginner an old time master told me, "Grind to shape with a 36 grit and then take out the scratches."

You will also need some aluminum oxide J-Flex belts with different grits. Everyone has preferred grits in these. I use both 80 & 180 grits. I like the Klingspor LS 312 belts as they are the most flexible of any that I've tried. ( http://popsupply.bizhosting.com/klin...12_j_flex.html) You will find that a flexible belt is a big help with handle shaping.

After these I use Trizact belts by 3M. (http://popsupply.bizhosting.com/klin...12_j_flex.html) These have no grit and will give you a smoother finish. I will use the A65 & A30 belts (the higher the number-the more aggressive the belt.) These have limited effectiveness on handle materials but are great on steel.

I get all of my belts from James Poplin (Pop Knife Supplies). http://popsupply.bizhosting.com/index.html

Hope that this helps.

Gary


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Last edited by Gary Mulkey; 10-29-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 10-29-2014, 10:17 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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Andy and Gary,

Thanks so much for your time in responding, great info. Wade.
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  #5  
Old 10-29-2014, 10:59 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Wade,

Tru-Grit carries a brand of ceramic belt called VSM. I have taken to using these over Blaze or Norton Hoggers because they seem to work about the same but they cost about half as much. I have shopped around for belts quite a bit and never found anyone who could beat Tru-Grit prices for the same quality.

As others above have indicated, you will just have to try a little of everything because not all belts will work for you the same as they do for someone else. Mine have boiled down to 60, 120, 220, and 400 and a ScotchBrite. Generally, you get what you pay for with belts - cheap belts are cheap for a reason. That said, just because a belt is expensive doesn't mean it will behave as you think it will. For instance, Gator belts and other structured abrasive belts are pricey but they don't move steel like you might think they should - basically, they are finishing belts and not much good at removing steel even in 60 grit.

So, for your first order get some ceramic 60 grit and maybe some Norton 120X, 220X and some Hermes 400JF (these belts are all blue) and a medium ScotchBrite.. These belts will work for almost anybody. Add any others that you think might be interesting to experiment with. Eventually, you will settle on your own customized mix that works best for you ....


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Old 10-29-2014, 11:16 AM
MTDuke MTDuke is offline
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True Grit is where I have been cruising around looking. Thanks for the simple advice, there are so many options it helps to narrow down the options. I don't mind the cost but would like to avoid TOO many purchases as experiments.

I am excited to be near to reducing my hand filing by a large margin!
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  #7  
Old 10-29-2014, 12:41 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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I once heard someone repeat advice once given to them here on the forums. It was, "Treat belts like they are free". The concept is that you always use a new belt, period. Then, just add the expense to the cost of the knife.

That sounds good and might work well for the maker who can sell his work at any price. Unfortunately, that is not me. Many of my knives end up being gifts. I'll be giving away around 15 of them for Christmas this year. If I burned four or five belts for each one of those free knives, I'd be wasting over $300, and that's just using the cheap belts! It's not realistic for me.

Now it might be real good advice for a high value commissioned piece, but honestly..., I just use belts until they become more of headache than they are worth. When they quit cutting going one direction, I flip them around and go the other way. When they are shot for steel use, I use them on handles. Every once in a while, when my 'used belt' hooks get too full, I go through and throw out the half showing the most wear.

These methods work for me, but may not be 'best practice'.


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Old 10-29-2014, 01:25 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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The reason they say "Treat belts like they are free" is because time is also money, especially if you are selling the knives. Dull belts cut slower but more importantly they aren't easy to use when you are trying to cut accurately. That means its a whole lot easier to screw up a grind line with a dull (or less sharp) belt. Of course, if you are doing only full flat grinds then that becomes much less of an issue. Anyway, the thought behind that saying is that if you try to use your belts too long you not only spend more time than necessary on a grind but also will likely spend more time trying to fix the wobbly grind you can get from a dull belt.

That's not to say I don't see Andrew's point. Believe me, that crosses my mind every time I do a KITH knife So, if you happen to be a good hand at grinding like Andrew then you can afford to ignore that advice. But, if you find yourself taking longer than you think a grind should take, or you find one side of the blade ground OK but the other just can't be controlled then you might have to reconsider how you use your belts. In the end it's as Andrew said, it boils down to whatever works for you ...


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Old 10-29-2014, 09:50 PM
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TexasJack TexasJack is offline
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All the advice so far has been pretty good. True-grit is an excellent source for belts. Big selection of quality belts at a competitive price with good customer service. They push all the right buttons.

As for "old" belts, I don't make knives as a business, so I do use them as long as possible and re-use them when I can. I can afford to spend a bit more time nursing a piece on a partially worn out belt.

However, the first time you have a belt come flying apart you will quickly decide to limit how far you really take a belt. I keep the used ones on one side of a rack and if I see the slightest flaw, that belt goes in the trash.

Don't even consider using any off-brand "bargain" belts. My f-in-law bought some at a woodworking show and gave them to me. They were badly joined and so I got that thump-thump-thump as the joint went by. They wore out quickly, some came apart, and one that got slightly wet just disintegrated.


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