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This Old Knife Here is a little forum dedicated to talking about, but not limited to, vintage and antique knives. Pics and stories of special knives or your favorite patterns are encouraged. No experts here. Just guys chattin about old knives and the legends we hav

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  #31  
Old 08-25-2005, 02:34 PM
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J.Arthur Loose J.Arthur Loose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamRidlon
I have one, but I am unfortunately lacking a vital piece of information -- the name of the blade. If I remember right it does exist, it is in a museum, it still has an exceptional edge. So maybe the story will jar the name of the maker or the blade itself out of someone's memory.

The bladesmith forged out the sword to near completion. The smith then ground the blade down to filings, fed them to his starved geese, collected all of their droppings over the next week, smelted, and reforged the sword, ground it back down to files... and so on. The process was repeated either two or three times.

Ahh, the sword is named Mimung, and forged by Velent as described in Thidhrekssaga. Velent is none other than Weyland or Volund. There are multiple versions of the story and in one, Volund recycles the iron through the geese thirteen times before forging a sword out of it. In Thidhrekssaga Velent reforges the sword three times, each time filing it down and feeding through the geese before resmelting & reforging.

In 1936, the Laboratory for Carbon and Iron Research, GmbH, Combined Steelworks AG in D?sseldorf, Germany experimented with Volund's technique and discovered that it results in nitrided steel. The legendary figure of Volund would hail from 1st-4th C. CE based on when the legends become popular. I have never heard of a sword claimed to be the legendary Mimung, and would think that I would have...

I am currently looking for donor geese.


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Last edited by J.Arthur Loose; 08-25-2005 at 02:41 PM.
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  #32  
Old 08-25-2005, 05:57 PM
alchemy forge alchemy forge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andries Olivier
Lastly. Myth has it that if you are given a knife as a gift, you should give something in return to avoid something bad from happening to you. Even if it's only one cent. I think this originated from the Vikings. Any ideas or info on this ?
The Rom or Gypsy people believe that if you don't give a coin to a tarot reader your reading will be false OR if it's a bad one, will come true! The idea is that nothing in the world is free and you pay one way or another. And the custom did hold that you should pay as much as you could afford, even if it was a single penny.

This could be something similar. And I could very well be wrong, this is just the first thing that popped into my head and it sounds pretty similar
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  #33  
Old 08-28-2005, 06:15 AM
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"You don't need a penny, just to hang around. But if you got a nickle, won't ya lay your money down"

Thanks for contributing guys.

Who has heard how many men James Bowie was said to have killed with his famous Bowie knife?


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  #34  
Old 08-28-2005, 10:02 AM
Greg obach Greg obach is offline
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I thought he died in the Alamo with 9 dead enemy around him.. ?? ... oh and don't forget the couple of baddies at the sandbar...

how many times was he shot and stabbed? he's one tough dude !

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  #35  
Old 08-28-2005, 10:45 PM
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If I remember correctly, Bowie only killed one guy with the knife.

At the time The Alamo was overrun, he was extremely sick (probably malaria). He was alleged to have fired two pistols before being bayoneted to death.


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  #36  
Old 09-04-2005, 08:24 PM
Lloyd Hale Lloyd Hale is offline
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As a budding maker of Bowie knives back in 1971 in Poway California, I was asked if I would move my Family to Washington Arkansas and make them in the newly restored Blacks Forge where legend had it Jim Bowie had his now infamous knife made.... Well after many tears from my young wife and arguements about why leave the beautiful Beaches of Southern California and go to a back woods little town in Arkansas....?? Off we went.. two young Kids and a Dog.... I learned a lot about the legend of James Black from the local old folks during my stay in Washington Arkansas and sadly, nothing learned even remotely convinced me that Jim Bowie had a knife made there.... Had Jim Bowie not Died at the Alamo We would have never heard of him.... He was just in the wrong place at the right time to take his place along side Davy Crockett a very famous man... I use to take a 6 pack of Beer and my Guitar out in the Cemetary where James Black was said to be buried Hoping to lure him out with a cold Brew and a song... But alas, All I got was strange looks from my Wife and Kids and a chapped butt from setting on wet grass... the locals thought me a colorful knifemaker so all was not lost.......


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  #37  
Old 09-04-2005, 11:43 PM
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That's a neat story, Lloyd. I bet all you've seen, heard and experienced in your time of knife-making could fill a book, and a very interesting book at that! Your point about Bowie and Black is probably right on. It's the vagaries of 'time and place' that create history as we know it - or 'thin threads' as I like to call them.
It reminds me of William Scagel's mythic status in the history of modern knife-making. A lot of folks think Bo Randall ultimately made Scagel famous. While there is a certain appealing logic in that idea, my own unsubstantiated 'hunch' is that what really enabled Scagel to make a name for himself was the completion of a big idea and a big project in (I think this date is right or at least very close) 1914 - a railroad track connecting New York and Chicago! Once again, being in the 'right location' at the 'right' time made a world of difference. Certainly it was not his winning personality that did it for Scagel!


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  #38  
Old 09-05-2005, 05:05 AM
Lloyd Hale Lloyd Hale is offline
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Stories of James Black and Jim Bowie were thrown at me from all angles during our stay at Washington Arkansas.... When the surrounding Local Folks learned there was a Bowie Knife maker there.... My favorite story was that when Jim Bowie came to pick up his new knife, He and Black walked outside the shop where a large Oak Tree stood-- Jim threw the knife at the tree and buried it clear to the Hilt... I personally tried that while there to see if it could be done.. using a 10 pound sledge hammer I couldn't get more than 6 inches without friction over coming legend..... But I loved every story.. to save my marriage though I had to get my Wife and Kids away from there -- Too many Snakes and too far from good Schools....


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  #39  
Old 09-05-2005, 09:01 AM
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I heard one that said, shortly after leaving Blacks shop, Bowie was set upon by three bandits and dipatched them all three quickly with his new knife.


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Old 09-05-2005, 11:35 AM
Lloyd Hale Lloyd Hale is offline
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While living at Washington Arkansas ( dry county) I would have to drive to Fulton Ark. for beer at the end of the day (10 miles).... Fulton was the jump off point between America and Mexico in the 1830's .. it was here that Sam Houston planned his sorties into Mexico ..I had heard that story about Bowie being jumped after he left the Forge and being attacked by three Bandits... Let me tell you what happened to me one day upon leaving the forge for my Beer run... Half way between Washington and Fulton in the middle of a pasture was a Donkey having sex with a Cow..... ( I swear ) I had to stop the car .. I didn't know animals would do that with different types.... the locals told me that a Donkey will sense any large animal in heat and try and do his thing....... Gotta hand it to the Donkey... I guess......


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  #41  
Old 09-05-2005, 11:58 AM
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Well Lloyd, if you were going to make up a story, it was suppose to have Jim Bowie in it. Something like, "Bowie once saved a cow from being de-flowered by a band of wild donkies" heehee.


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  #42  
Old 09-05-2005, 01:04 PM
Lloyd Hale Lloyd Hale is offline
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You're right... I digressed... Sorry bout that...Yet you could look on that scene in the pasture in 1971 as a Metaphor with James Black as the Donkey and us the living as the Cow being screwed by an urban legend...... Then again you could see Sam Houston as the Donkey and Santa Ana as the Cow..... As He screws him out of Texas..... But, Time marches on... Now I see Mexico as the Donkey and America as the Cow as Mexico screws us by sending over all these eligal aliens..... They are taking back what we stole.....


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  #43  
Old 09-05-2005, 07:21 PM
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While we move our industry down there....Don't make no sense.
Here is a good site I found while looking for something else. It is a good one because it puts all the famous American bowie knives believed to be connected with The Bowie's in one spot with explainations on how they are said to have came to be. I did notice the Musso is not included, but some would not think it should be. Do you know of any others that would or should be included?

A Knife Like Bowie's


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  #44  
Old 09-05-2005, 08:03 PM
Lloyd Hale Lloyd Hale is offline
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There really are no knives anywhere that I know of that can be proven to have been made by James Black... I'm talking about proof not speculation or hear say... James Black was at the right place at the right time and Jim Bowie did go through Washington Arkansas on his way to visit in Mexico.... If my recollection is right Jim Bowie was a somewhat shady Charactor .... I made a career out of making Bowie knives.. Raised two kids and put them through school grinding those 12 inch blades.....what I'm driving at is .. I've studied that time in history and James Black is a non intity.... Back in those days the knifemakers made using tools.... compared to them I make toys....


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  #45  
Old 09-05-2005, 08:34 PM
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I agree completely. It does break the heart a little when ya finally have to admit the facts to yourself. It is kinda like when as a kid you found out there was no Santa. So, what do we do? Give up on the fantasy, or keep studying and searching, hoping that some proof will be found in some dark attic somewhere? In the link I posted the writer seems to believe that the Edwin Forrest Bowie is probably a fabricated story because it was not advertized as such till long after the Bowie's were dead. On the other hand, Bernard Levine says that the Forrest is the only bowie that has a real proveable connection to the Bowie's. I don't know if the Forrest claims to be a Black knife. Do you?


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