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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 02-23-2015, 02:30 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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I guess it ended up being a kitchen knife?

So none of my day went as planned. Went to the metal place that was pretty highly reccommended out here only to find they don't carry any steel that I could work with. They just do structural steel. I did find another piece of some flat stock that I could work with (Unidentified, I figured I'd wing it and toss the blade if it was bad) and tried working a blade on stock that was already finished thickness. I made many mistakes starting with cutting out the handle too small. I had to go back and cut some more material away to get a passable handle. I went to grinding and got the basic shape ground out. I tried to polish the sides but I found out that it wasn't truly flat as I'd hoped. It never really smoothed back out completely so I guess I have a lot to learn there. After the shape was established I put it up in the forge to harden it up and when I quenched it it warped a bit. Flattened it back out on the anvil cold and went back to trying to polish the sides up and it got as thin as I was willing to let it get before I had to stop. The end result was a blade that is surprisingly flexible without breaking and it took a crazy edge. The scales are stabilized Western Red Cedar and that part went well enough since I wasn't trying to grind past gaps made with a hammer. I was initially planning a really basic Bowie but after seeing the handle I realized I had more of a kitchen knife so I went with it. I have my work cut out for me learning how to do the mirror finish, and I guess time will tell on the results for this knife. For now I will spend my afternoon in some epic Batman pajamas and relax.





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  #2  
Old 02-23-2015, 03:35 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Not very likely to find cutlery steels anywhere but at knife supply places. You can find tool steels but you really aren't ready to spend the money on that type of thing.

You said your handle turned out to be too small for the bowie you intended to make. That's because you are only thinking about full tang knives. There are other styles you could have made such as a stub tang - that would have required you to cut the handle down even more but the end result would be as large a handle as you could ever want.

You said you put it in the forge to harden it up but, you were using mild structural steel. The whole point to mild steel is that it can't be hardened (or scarcely at all). This lack of hardening was further demonstrated when you straightened it out while cold - that would have broken any hardened blade, especially if you didn't temper it which you didn't mention.

Yes, its flexible without breaking - very likely it can't be broken even if you wanted to break it. Yes, it takes a good edge, most any metal will. After all, they use to make swords out of bronze. But, that doesn't mean the edge will hold up to real use and that's the important part. The knife in the picture might hold up pretty well actually but it would be because the blade is still very thick. It will hold up but it won't cut as it should.

Yes, there is a major learning curve that goes with learning how to do a mirror finish. Don't waste your time on that right now. That's decoration, you need to concentrate on making a functional knife first. You clearly have the basic ability but you're still doing what most of us do at first and shot gunning all over the place. Make a good blade. I know you're having trouble getting the right steel - that is a problem now and then but I hear Admiral has some 1080 and alphaknifesupply might have some or equivalent. Get some and make some 4" hunters or utility knives, not bowies. Small knives go faster, then you can do some proper testing and , if things aren't right, you can quickly make another small knife and try again. When you can make a good small knife then move on to bigger knives. And after you can make a good big knife then if you still think mirror finishes are a good idea that would be the time to worry about learning that process...


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Old 02-23-2015, 03:45 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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You have made an alarming number of valid points in a very short time. I do need to find a knife supply shop. I also DESPERATELY need the proper dimensions for my bar stock. I ALWAYS guess wrong ordering online. I figured this one was going to end up being a potentially junk test mule, I will probably find out just how long that edge will last before too long. I also struggle with nailing proportion down without an extra set of eyes at first.
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Old 02-23-2015, 03:45 PM
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Hunter10139 Hunter10139 is offline
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If you don't believe ray, try running the edge over some brass rod, cut some cardboard, chop some 2x4s with that big thing. Test it and you'll see that the edge won't hold up well.

Also, try hand sanding your knives to 400-600 grit using oil on the higher grits. This is called a satin finish and in my opinion looks better than a mirror finish. Plus, it hides the scratches of use better and if you're like a lot of us you love to use your knives.


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Old 02-23-2015, 04:14 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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At least you got some good practice of shaping a blade. I'd say that you actually did quite a bit right with that one. You're really going to be held up until you can get some good knife steel. Something like 1080 or 1084 will work well and be more forgiving on heat treating than some of the more complex tool steels. Then learn how to heat treat. There are plenty of good instruction on that on these boards but, unfortunately, there's also really bad instructions.

I would suggest to go to hypefreeblades forum and look up heat treating there. That sight is pretty much run by metallurgists or a least people who have studied metallurgy. You could also go to KnifeDogs.com and scroll down to Heat Treating on KnifeDogs click on it and at the top of the page you will see a pinned topic "Your Heat Treating Toolbox" and there is a thorough discussion on the various aspects of heat treating that has reliable information.

Doug


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Old 02-23-2015, 04:16 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Check the Sticky note at the top of the forum about where to buy 1084 (or 1080 or 1075). One of them should have something. If not, just say so and someone here who has bought 20 feet of it will likely be able to spare some.

As for thickness, on a 4" hunter or utility knife either 1/8" or 3/16" is very common, your choice. Heck, try both. 1.25" wide is the usual width used with small blades.

And take Hunters advise on the satin finish although I wouldn't worry about that right now either. ANY kind of finish is just to make the knife look good and right now your priority is to first be sure you are making a real knife ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-23-2015 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 02-23-2015, 06:22 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Please note, if you decide to get your steel from Admiral, the hot rolled stuff will not be annealed. You may not be able to drill through it. I believe the stuff from some of the other suppliers can be bought annealed. You will save yourself a lot of headaches by purchasing annealed steel.
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Old 02-23-2015, 07:00 PM
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C Craft C Craft is offline
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If you want good knives buy good steel! That was one of the first things I was told by a seasoned maker. The he looked me in the eye and said, only if you know what classification the steel is that you are using can you treat it in a way to get it' maximum potential from that given steel! If you are not getting the full potential out of the steel you are just wasting your time!

Most places will sell you knife steel in small amounts Admiral is one of them but here is another that will sell you small amounts and I have never heard a bad thing about him. http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/

I know you want to save money when you are getting started but the learning curve on handling a given steel is hard enough. The learning curve for a steel that doesn't have enough carbon to make a good knife goes in the other direction, down and then up!

Enough preaching the shape is good on that blade. Chalk it up to practice and go buy some good steel!


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With every custom knife I build I try to accomplish three things. I want that knife to look so good you just have to pick it up, feel so good in your hand you can't wait to try it, and once you use it, you never want to put it down !
If I capture those three factors in each knife I build, I am assured the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner!

C Craft
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:06 PM
AllanBeasley AllanBeasley is offline
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I managed to order 3 feet of 1080, I'm going to research the post-quench heat treatment on it, I hope that's the last big hurdle before I can make a consistent quality bade worthy of being sold. I will also heed the advice to stick with smaller knives as I learn.
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anvil, back, blade, bowie, cold, edge, flat, forge, grinding, hammer, handle, harden, how to, kitchen, kitchen knife, knife, made, material, metal, mirror, polish, quenched, scales, steel, thickness


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