Second Annual Newbie KITH

[NJStricker]

It's official! We're carrying on the tradition of the Newbie KITH.

KITH stands for "Knife In The Hand." This is your opportunity to make a knife to the best of your abilities, then send it off to someone else for them to enjoy. Since this is not a knife that you will be able to hide from the world once it is finished, this is your chance to do the best job possible. In return, someone else in the KITH will send you a knife that they've made. I will randomly draw names at the end of the KITH to determine to whom you will send your knife.

Why are we doing this? Because 1) we are new to knifemaking and need to develop skills 2) this will challenge us to make the best knife we can 3) this will establish a group of peers with whom we can interact and ask questions, and 4) the best part of all--to have fun!!!

RULES:

1) If you consider yourself a newbie, please join in!!! If you are not a newbie, but still want to join, then please use this as an opportunity to attempt a skill you've never tried before.

2) Sole authorship knives are HIGHLY encouraged. However, if you really don't want to attempt your own knife and want to do a kit, that is fine so long as you make a unique contribution to the final product (i.e. it won't look like any other kit knife of the same model). That being said, if you are a KITH participant kit knives will be on equal ground with original knives--if you make your own knife, you might receive a kit knife at the end.

3) Any knife design you want, of any materials. You may send your blade out for heat treat. A suggested upper limit is 10 inches OAL. Please keep in mind that you may end up sending your knife to a location where it might not be legal (we had one case of this last year).

4) Sheath is optional, but encouraged.

5) You can start your knife at any time. The target deadline to have all knives completed is April 30. We will update this thread later with deadlines for shipping, etc.

6) Ask for help or suggestions at any time. That's why we're here, and I'm sure some of the more knowledgeable makers that frequent these forums will be more than happy to help.

7) Pictures of your knife in progress is highly encouraged!!! Maybe we can have a gallery of completed knives at the end of the KITH.

8) KITH rules will be established by concensus of the participants.

The current list of Newbie KITH participants is:

Armory414 (Nathan)
JediOkie (Jayson)
Derek Parker
Doug Lester
Acrid Saint (Cap Hayes)
markd
jdm61
Dave Ruhlig
Drac (Jim Drouilliard)
Randy Havard
dmarx (Dave)
sbuzek (Stanley Buzek)
ranger1 (Andy Sharpe)
dpanther (Dave)
Zimba (Lars J)
Don Halter
NuViking

[DaveRuhlig]

Nathan-
I just replied on the other post. I'd love to get in on this - I'm sure one of you guys has a bunch of paper laying around the shop and could use a nice 10" paper weight from my shop to hold it down with .
-Dave

[NJStricker]

Dave,

I'm sure your knife will be just fine.

The first knife I ever tried to assemble was a Russell Green River Dadley blade. I got everything from Koval's a dozen years ago. I must have spent 2 hours wandering through their shop looking over blades, handle material, etc., trying to decide what I wanted to make. They were patient folks.

I got the materials home, roughed out the handle slabs from curly maple, drilled the holes, epoxied them on the handle. The internet was just getting going then and so I didn't have the resources we have now. No knife forums then, as far as I know. I didn't know there were books out there. I just went at it. I used cutler's rivets. Not knowing what tools to use, I tried compressing them with a C-clamp. I botched it. Instead of sliding together, the stems just crumpled. The epoxy wasn't quite set, and the slabs shifted. I made the mistake of trying to pry everything apart before the glue hardened fully. The only thing I had thin enough to get under the slab to try and pry it apart was. . .you guessed it. . .a kitchen knife. I was a dummy. Spent the evening getting stitches in my hand when the knife slipped. By the time I got back home the epoxy had set and the knife was a mess. I still have it somewhere.

I like to think that my knifemaking has improved since then.

[JediOkie]

Well I'm even going to try and do the heat treating myself...which means I may be making at least two blades for this KITH .

[NJStricker]

I'll be making a stainless blade for the KITH. But I've also been searching through past posts and the Sticky notes about a heat treating forge. When spring comes around I will try to put together a 1 brick forge and then get some 1095 or O1.

[JediOkie]

I had thought about buying a bar of Damascus from Jantz, but since I am sooo new to stock removal I really would hate to scrap a $100 bar tring to get something that somewhat resembles a knife out of it. Plus the wife vetoed it.

[Drac]

Do I still count? I'm game if you guys are.

Jim

[JediOkie]

Jim,
Glad to have you. Do we get naked virgins on this knife?

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by JediOkie

I had thought about buying a bar of Damascus from Jantz, but since I am sooo new to stock removal I really would hate to scrap a $100 bar tring to get something that somewhat resembles a knife out of it. Plus the wife vetoed it.

Just my 2 cents, but I'd get the other skills down, especially heat treat, before jumping into high dollar damascus. Besides, if you have a forge you could always try your hand at cable damascus!

[NJStricker]

Originally Posted by Drac

Do I still count? I'm game if you guys are.

Jim

Sure Jim, happy to have you! When does the kitchen KITh finish? If it gets down to it later we can always extend the deadline for this KITH, depending on where people are at with their knives. We're here to have fun with our new hobby, not stress out about it.

[derek parker]

ok so the questions begin........first things first. i keep looking through my catalogs and im having a problem figuring out which kind of steel to use and what size and all that. there are way to many options for me because im not quite sure what i need.
what is the easiest to work with, but will still perform great?
im planning to get it heat treated at the end of this so i guess a steel that likes the HT.
also, im gonna need some recomondations for tools.
one of the cheap grinders/sanders, and what belts will i need with it?
i have a scroll saw/disc sander combo, a little drill press and two dremels for my main tools.
if there is anything else that you guys think i need let me know, but my near future "big" investmant will be the grinder/sander.....
anyway, thats it for now. thanks again guys.

[Drac]

Not if my wife has anything to say about it and she does.

I'm thinking on a several ideas. Bouncing bowies around with push daggers with a dress dirk, etc.

The Kitchen KITH Starts in Jan & runs 3 months,
Jim

[NJStricker]

Okay, good questions, Derek.

First, the belt grinder. I guess it will come down to how much money do you have to spend and how much do you really love knifemaking? You should probably answer the second part of that question for yourself before you start putting out lots of money. Of the belt grinders, in my mind you can group them into 2 types. Those for home woodworking and those for shop/metalworking. The home woodworking belt grinders you can find at Sears, Lowes, etc. for under $200. They will have belt sizes in the range of 1x30, 4x36, 1x42, etc., and will typically have grits made from aluminum oxide (AlOx). These short AlOx belts tend to wear out quickly, don't track well, and so while you can probably make a knife on one, the advice from others on here is that you will probably do so with much frustration. Then there are the metal working belt grinders: Grizzly, KMG, Baldor, and others. I think they run $300 and up. Figure around $900 for a good one. Belts will be 1x60, 2x72, and come in more options for grit materials, such as Silicon carbide, zirconia, etc., that are better for knife grinding. A lot of guys on here will tell you to not bother with the lower end grinders but save up money for the KMG.

All that being said, there are guys on here that have made knives with disc sanders, hand-held belt sanders mounted upside down, angle grinders, etc. I am using files. I have about $40 invested in good quality Craftsman files from Sears. It is very slow, but I am taking my time learning how to get the angle right on the grinds, seeing what goes wrong with the plunge cuts, learning to do convex and flat grinds, etc. You will need the files anyway for some of the finish work.

As far as steel goes--I am currently working with ATS-34, 1.5"x1/8" stock from Admiral Steel. I will send out for heat treat. 1095 CRA (cold rolled annealed) and O1 are popular suggestions here for beginners that want to do their own heat treat. But if you don't and you want to work with these steels, I think Delbert Ealy on this forum offers heat treat services for carbon steels for a small fee. 1095 CRA is a lot cheaper than stainless and is popular for it's ease of sharpening. I don't think you can go wrong with ATS-34 or 440C for stainless, or 1095 or O1 for carbon steels. Check out Bob Engnath's website, especially the page on Steels: http://www.engnath.com/public/manframe.htm

As for other tools, the only big thing I see missing is sandpaper/emory paper in a wide selection of grits, from 220 through 1000. This site will give you an idea about the process for hand sanding: http://www.homestead.com/beknivessite2/handrubbing.html. While you're at it, check out the tutorials at the top of the Newbies Arena, and the tutorials found here: http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/#heat

[JediOkie]

Originally Posted by derek parker

ok so the questions begin........first things first. i keep looking through my catalogs and im having a problem figuring out which kind of steel to use and what size and all that. there are way to many options for me because im not quite sure what i need.
what is the easiest to work with, but will still perform great?
im planning to get it heat treated at the end of this so i guess a steel that likes the HT.
also, im gonna need some recomondations for tools.
one of the cheap grinders/sanders, and what belts will i need with it?
i have a scroll saw/disc sander combo, a little drill press and two dremels for my main tools.
if there is anything else that you guys think i need let me know, but my near future "big" investmant will be the grinder/sander.....
anyway, thats it for now. thanks again guys.

I was told to start with a high carbon like 1084 or 1095 so that is what I got. Both of those are supposed to be really easy to heat treat yourself as well. I've also heard a lot of people say O1 is an awesome steel to work with and turns out an excellent product. Also supposed to be fairly simple to heat treat. If I were starting over and didn't have over 20 feet of steel already, I would probably go with the O1.
You can shape most of the knife with an angle grinder which is about 20-30 depending on what you get. And for a belt grinder if you can afford a KMG definetly go with that. If you can't I like my Grizzly a lot. Just can't do as much on it and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get the work rest on.

[jdm61]

Originally Posted by JediOkie

I was told to start with a high carbon like 1084 or 1095 so that is what I got. Both of those are supposed to be really easy to heat treat yourself as well. I've also heard a lot of people say O1 is an awesome steel to work with and turns out an excellent product. Also supposed to be fairly simple to heat treat. If I were starting over and didn't have over 20 feet of steel already, I would probably go with the O1.
You can shape most of the knife with an angle grinder which is about 20-30 depending on what you get. And for a belt grinder if you can afford a KMG definetly go with that. If you can't I like my Grizzly a lot. Just can't do as much on it and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get the work rest on.

1075/1080/1084 is more forgiving in the heat treat than 1095. 5160, even more so and you can get thick bars of it, so you can hide a lot of sins you commit along the way. Plus, it is realtively che3ap and pretty widely available. Were do you live? I have a little Sears 2 x 42 grinder that is gathering dust and taking up space in my already overcrowded garage shop.