Lead-free brass?

[prtsimmons]

I was going to order some 360 brass to make bolsters and handles out of, but then I noticed it contains about 3% lead. I don't like the idea of gripping and sweating all over a handle that contains lead (I mostly make knives for my own use and as gifts, but they are all designed to be used - I wouldn't be concerned it it was for an 'art knife').

Is there another brass alloy that is easy to carve and machine, but that does not contain lead? (I know there is, because 360 brass would be illegal for jewellery in California, due to lead content.) What kind of brass is fairly easy to work with files and saws, but does not contain lead (or less than 1% lead)? Is there somewhere online that sells small quantities?

Thanks,
Paul

[Ron Aggus]

Look at Onlinemetals.com, They several types of brass and also bronze.

[TexasJack]

Check your pockets. Got any nickels? It's more toxic than lead. Brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Zinc dust from grinding is extremely toxic in the lungs.

Just my $0.02, but I think you're overly worried about trace lead content in your brass.

[Wade Holloway]

TexasJack is right. Even working with it allot would be hard to get any significant amounts absorbed, much less just using a knife with it on it.

[Doug Lester]

I would only worry about the lead content if I were melting the brass. Even leaded pewter isn't all that bad as long as you're not eating off it and that stuff has a lot more than 3% lead. Where you have to worry about metals most is when you're doing something that causes it to vaporize, then you need to wear a respirator. I know that a lot of people think that a respirator is a hassle but so is getting layed off work and having to go into the hospital to have heavy metals removed from your system. I've seen that happen to more than one welder.

There is also a difference between making a piece of jewelry out of 360 brass that is going to stay in contact with the skin long periods of time, maybe even 24/7, where it will be exposed to moisture almost constantly and being made into a bolster or guard that is going to ride in a pocket or sheath, be kept dry, and infrequently come in contact with the skin.

Doug Lester

[B.Finnigan]

Look up how much mercury is in the flu shots everyone gets. As a culture we have our fears completely mixed up and backwards. Or what about the amalgam (mercury) fillings that some of you still have in your teeth? Or the anti-freeze in our deodorants. Or the aluminum dioxide in our toothpaste.

[John]

My father used to like a drink of beer at home almost every night for as long as I could remember. For all that time he drank his beer from a glass bottomed pewter tankard. He never had any ill effects... well not from the pewter anyway!

[AcridSaint]

Zinc dust is inert and the zinc can be absorbed by your body. The gas produced by burning zinc may be dangerous but has no permanent side effects on healthy individuals. It may also "unhealthy" if consumed in too large a quantity.

[TexasJack]

Lest anyone think that zinc fumes are safe, I refer you to this:

http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/tutor/safety3/index.htm

Even with that, my point remains the same: There are lots of toxic materials around you every day. They only become a problem when handled improperly. e.g., no one has ever gotten sick from handling pennies, but you can get sick (from the zinc) if you eat a few. (Happens more often to pets than humans.)

The small amount of lead in brass is inconsequential.

[AcridSaint]

I want to make note of my use of the word "healthy" in my post above. If you have a medically diagnosed breathing/lung problem and decide to enter/stay in any room that is billowing smoke of any sort your life expectancy goes down.

They put zinc in vitamin supplements and you can even buy straight zinc pills. There may be studies that link ingesting too much to prostate cancer or whatever, but over indulgence almost always leads to some sort of health risk, doesn't it? After all, we can even drink too much water.

The zinc fumes myth is perpetrated throughout the knifemaking community. I'm not suggesting that anyone go out and try to get sick from it, but lead exposure has far more serious long-term health implications and I don't believe we should trivialize it by comparing it to an inert element.

[B.Finnigan]

Jim Willson had Emphysema and his cause of death was double pneumonia, not zinc fume fever. If you look at his picture you can see how blue he allready was showing his oxygen saturation was greatly decreased. At that point any respiratory irritation could cause pneumonia.

Look up the MSDS for zinc oxide.

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/z3705.htm

It's not plutonium. Everyone should be far more focused on carbon monoxide from thier forges which will kill you and you can't see or smell it.

Zinc (not zinc oxide) does not cause prostate cancer, it has been shown to prevent it. It is also a vital nutrient for a healthy immune system.

[AcridSaint]

Hi Brent, my prostate reference was related to articles I have seen linking large quantities of zinc supplements to prostate cancer.

"There was no relationship between zinc intake and localized cancer. However, those taking specific zinc supplements providing more than 100 milligrams a day had a two to three fold increased risk of advanced prostate cancer. There was also a suggestion that supplement dosages between 25 and 100 milligrams might increase the risk."

http://healthfullife.umdnj.edu/archi...nc_archive.htm

I also agree that it's necessary in moderation, just like everything else we thrive on.

[Alan L]

I always find myself having to jump in when this comes up, as Jim was my friend and a good customer.

No, zinc fume fever alone didn't kill him. Yes, what he did was stupid in the extreme.

However, how many of us have sometimes done something really stupid when we knew better and gotten away with it?

While the zinc fume didn't directly kill Jim, it did directly lead to the pneumonia that did. As Brent said, that's because when you have emphysema anything can set it off. Jim's emphysema was not advanced. He was not on oxygen, though maybe he should have been.

The point of relating the story at all is to remind folks to be careful with things. A little zinc fume may not kill me, but it may set off a bout of pneumonia in you. Or an asthma attack. Or liver failure. It's all about being aware of risk. For most, it's a small risk, but for some, it's bigger. It's up to the individual to assess his or her own health and decide how much exposure to what is safe.

Heck, I'm allergic to most perfumes, and I mean anaphylactic shock kind of allergic. If I can't get out into fresh air in seconds, my throat starts to close up, my eyes water, I get tunnel vision, and my lungs stop working. This is one reason you won't often see me in a Sunday crowd type of situation, where just brushing up against some old dear with no sense of smell who dumps the perfume on like water can leave me on all fours retching and gasping for air, all the while trying to remove the now-offending article of clothing. Thus, I know it's not safe for me to get near the cosmetics counter at department stores lest someone spray a cloud of stinky stuff my way. I recover in half an hour or so now, but if I ever get emphysema (a possibility since I smoke a pipe, another calculated risk ) that same kind of exposure may well send me into terminal pneumonia.

Okay, that was a bit of a digression, but you get the idea. It is NOT a myth, but it only happens in certain circumstances.

Zinc fume fever is real, and can happen to anyone. Most people recover in a few days. You do have to try hard to get it, so be aware of what you're doing and what your threshold is.

Going back to the original question about lead in 360 brass, it's not enough to worry about unless you're gonna soak the filings in vinegar for a few days and then drink it, repeating on a daily basis for a couple of years. You don't want to breath the fumes if you melt it, since those fumes will contain lead and zinc, and copper if you get it hot enough, all of which in vapor form are irritant poisons.