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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-19-2016, 12:19 PM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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Etching Cable question

HI There, I've been doing some cable blades lately and am a bit disappointed in the etch. Believe my etchant is good, mixed at 1/3 FC to 2/3 distilled water and it etches the temper line of my regular knives just fine. I have been sanding the cable blades to 320 grit, then harden (full quench the blade) and temper. Then finish sand them to 600, then doing the etch. I had the last knife in the etchant for a total of 1 hr. Ten minute increments to monitor the etch. After 1 hr. knife was OK as far as depth but was a bit rugged looking. Was thinking about trying to harden and temper the blade "AFTER" sanding to 600 grit and doing the etch. Thought the etch would perhaps be better on the softer metal.
A couple knives ago I left the handle soft and the etch was much better on the handle than on the hardened blade. One reason I did not harden after etching was - thought the etch lines might cause some serious warping when I went to harden it. Any thoughts on this?
I am going to try some different cable next time and see how that etches, but have a good supply of current cable. Oh yeah, I usually etch at about 65-70 degrees so don't think the temp. is a factor. OK, would appreciate any good ideas on this. Thanks Much. Greg
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Old 01-19-2016, 12:55 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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I think that if you grind out to 600 grit then etch your blades before hardening you are just going to end up spinning your wheels. One, you will be forming an oxide and maybe a little bit of fire scale austenizing the blade and then you will need to do your finish grind on top of that which will remove any etch that might be left. I just don't think that it's realistic to expect a strong contrast in any billet where it's layers of the same steel being welded together.

Doug


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Old 01-19-2016, 12:59 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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What exactly are you expecting from the cable etch? If you're looking for high contrast like pattern weld damascus you will be doomed to disappointment. Most cable is made from only one metal so there is nothing to contrast in the etch. Cable pattern is only the slight decarb lines between the strands so it is usually pretty faint.

James McClendon is the cable guy around here, hopefully he'll chime in. There are some cable materials that etch somewhat better than most or you can improve your results by weaving your own cable from different types ...


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Old 01-19-2016, 04:50 PM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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Thanks Doug and Ray. I agree, you are correct about having to sand out the surface scale after hardening thereby removing the etch. And I agree, the etch lines in the cable is the decarburized metal around each wire. I'm not expecting a high contrast but more than what I have been getting. Couple yrs. back I got a little chunk of cable that etch pretty nice. not so with current cable. I will give different cable a try. Thanks for the advice and info. Have a great day. Sincerely, Greg
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Old 01-19-2016, 05:11 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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There's a few things to look at with etching cable. Welding temps will effect how it looks, with the pattern being a little weaker if welded in the lower end. You've got the time and polish thing down. Cable likes a long, slow etch. It usually takes 2 to 3 long etches to get the pattern. Finally, cable that isn't properly hardened will not etch as well as properly heat treated and tempered steel. Keep your tempering cycle below 400F. One other thing, the individual wire size can effect patterning as well as the cables ability to harden.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:44 AM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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Thank You for the additional info. on cable etching. I may let the cable "soak" at welding heat just a bit more, perhaps that will decarburize just a little more on the outside of each wire. I have been tempering right at 400 degrees (3x's for 1hr. each). Just did an etch yesterday and it turned out "acceptable" but not quite like I was hoping. Perhaps just the nature of the beast. It was a different cable, first time with it. Was hoping for and am still hoping to - get this cable down for a good looking blade. Know folks who just replaced about 2 miles worth of ski lift cable so would have a about 10 life times (or longer) worth of supply. It is 1-1/2", six strand with a rope in the middle (removed rope.) Each strand has about 17 larger wires (less than 1/16 I guess and about 7 fine wires. Made mistake of cutting first section to short so it was very hard to twist tight. Plus, 1-1/2" is big piece to hammer down by hand. Next piece will be 3 of the strands twisted tight, then welded together and then that piece, twisted "tight" as I can get it. Think that twisting tight produces a better pattern. OK, best get to shop and put bolsters and handle on current one. Thanks again guys for all your info. and help. Take care, Greg PS after the etch, I light sanded with 1200 grit then used gun blue and lightly sanded again. that helped with contrast.
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Old 01-29-2016, 01:05 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Have you tested - seriously tested - a blade made from that ski lift cable including breaking it? I don't know what ski lift cable is made from and without serious testing you really won't know if you made a knife or just a decorative object. Most cable you find laying around does not have near enough carbon in it to harden enough to make a serviceable blade ...


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Old 02-01-2016, 11:14 AM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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HI Ray, I have not tested the blades to the point of breakage. I have been wearing one on my hip for the past year plus, cutting everything from rope, cardboard, wood, electrical, plastic, etc. and it seems to be doing just fine. Give them each the brass rod test and so far so good with a 400 degree temper (3x) Also, the heat/oil residue wipes off cleanly after the hardening quench and the file slides across the edge like on glass. I pretty confident it hardens. You are probably correct though, in suggesting a test to the point of breakage, checking on its toughness and grain size. Just hammered out a 18"x1-1/4"x1/4 bar yesterday, so will consider a test blade. Thanks for suggesting. Later, Greg
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:02 PM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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HI There, tried to take a couple photos of the latest blade made from wire rope (cable), hope they attach. Any constructive criticism would be appreciated. Shive #1.JPG

Shive #4.JPG

Shive #2.JPG
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2016, 05:26 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Looks good.
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  #11  
Old 02-06-2016, 11:37 AM
G.T.Metz G.T.Metz is offline
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Did a little research on that Ski-Lift cable: 1-3/8", 6x25 RLL, EE+IPS. It is extra-extra- improved plow share which should have a carbon content of .85%. Just hardened 2 blades yesterday and am on the last temper cycle now. Took the 6 strand cable about and worked with just 3 strands - much easier to twist tight and easier/quicker to hammer into a billet. Hoping the etching goes OK. Thanks again for all your info. and help. Take care, greg PS, James, I see you have a 3 pt. tutorial, I will check it out. Thanks. Just saw it on the Damascus forum.
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