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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #31  
Old 05-11-2021, 11:43 AM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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I meant the die holder not the dies
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2021, 11:46 AM
KenH KenH is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Railey View Post
I meant the die holder not the dies
The die holder is just the "L" bracket cut from 1/8" angle iron and welded on. I've not made a die holder as shown in the drawing.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2021, 09:09 AM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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Ken I have also worked out in my head how to make drawing dies (and fullering dies) that you can use changeable kisser blocks to control over pressing your billets. The kisser blocks are quick change and tool-less. Want me to send you a drawing?

Also Ed, sorry to hijack your forum for our personal discussion on how to Mod our press.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2021, 10:14 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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You guys ARE NOT "hijacking" anything! Keep goin! I don't think it matters how long a person has been using a specific press, or how familiar they are with it and it's action/motion, I think what you're calling "kisser blocks" is a must, especially when using a press for drawing out things.

Since I have the air hammer too, it is my go to for drawing, but I still use those "kisser blocks" all the time in my press for many operations. In fact.......





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Last edited by Ed Caffrey; 05-12-2021 at 10:48 AM.
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2021, 10:58 AM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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The chains are genius Ed. That will keep the blocks from running away or getting used as scrap. Consider that idea stolen. Stop blocks also sounds more cool so...
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2021, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Railey View Post
The chains are genius Ed. That will keep the blocks from running away or getting used as scrap. Consider that idea stolen. Stop blocks also sounds more cool so...
I wish someone would have shown me, or I'd thought of it sooner. Early on, I was forever loosing and remaking my most commonly used sizes of stop blocks.


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  #37  
Old 05-12-2021, 12:45 PM
KenH KenH is offline
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I had noticed the chains on the "stop blocks" in one of Ed's videos - great idea.

I think Ed likes the idea posting here is to generate more traffic for the forum. It's been sorta slow on the forum until Ed moved over and we're trying to generate traffic.

Yep,of course I'd like the CAD drawings. Are they a .dwg file? dxf? Anyway, the dimensions are stock die is 5" X 1.5" X 1/4" on the base. The holes are 4" center to center and the die itself is 3" long. That the info you wanted? I've been using the term "kisser block" since I heard it somewhere and thinks "sexy" but "stop block" certainly more correct.

Last edited by KenH; 05-13-2021 at 08:40 AM.
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  #38  
Old 05-12-2021, 01:15 PM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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I am going to make my quick change holders to accept 6" x 2" baseplates. That will give me room to make custom six inch combo dies with essentially just under 3 inches of each kind of die in the combo. Since the original base in the frame is 5 inches a half inch of overhang on each side should be fine.
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  #39  
Old 05-12-2021, 06:18 PM
KenH KenH is offline
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I think that is the perfect size to make the die holder. "IF" I had thought about it before welding to the press I'd be doing the same. That big die size won't be needed for single dies, but perfect for combo dies.
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  #40  
Old 05-13-2021, 02:34 PM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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Ed. When you say leave slop all around the die are we talking about .060" slop or more like .125" slop?
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2021, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Railey View Post
Ed. When you say leave slop all around the die are we talking about .060" slop or more like .125" slop?
More like .125" or more. It's difficult to explain is words, but once you get into a use situation where something breaks because there wasn't enough "give"....it'll become clear. That's not meant to be smartelic thing... I just am not sure how to describe it. I guess it might be it's better to have too much "slop"... than not enough?


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  #42  
Old 05-15-2021, 08:17 PM
Chris Railey Chris Railey is offline
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That makes sense, thanks I should finish them up tomorrow.
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  #43  
Old 05-16-2021, 11:30 AM
KenH KenH is offline
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I started to respond with >1/8" yesterday when I saw your question, but wasn't sure what was needed and knew Ed would clime in soon with a real answer. Now, I can say I agree with Ed totally. When I welded the "L" brackets to my press I had good clearance on top of die base, but the ends were pretty darn close. Yesterday when pressing a canister (my first ever) using the squaring dies I made things went really good. Good solid press and worked good. The problem came in when I decided to press a rectangular billet into a square. That odd shape caused the squaring dies to move a bit and broke the "L" bracket on the end. Welded back on with a bit more slack.

I do LOVE my quick change die holder, but now need to add the clip to hold the dies in place so they don't slide out when dragging the billet over the die.
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  #44  
Old 05-16-2021, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Ed Caffrey View Post
I guess it might be it's better to have too much "slop"... than not enough?
IMO, like everything, it's a balance. Too much slop and your dies won't index/line up properly and forging will be a nightmare. Not being argumentative, but on first glance, 1/8" seems a lot to me. I'd have to go out to my press and see what I've got, but I'd guess it's closer to 1/16".

I've got a number of friends who are good enough tool makers that they can ensure that everything is square, lines up and stable and have no slop in their tooling dies. Some even bolt them down to keep them solid and indexed.
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  #45  
Old 05-16-2021, 12:06 PM
KenH KenH is offline
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It wasn't my dies didn't index, the problem was when I put the rectangle to press into a square it wasn't sitting exactly even in the dies. "IF" I had made sure to sit the rectangle square in die so the bottom was sitting equally in the "V" of the die, so the top would have matched the same it would have been just fine. For some dumb reason I was thinking I'll sit rectangle at an angle so it will press a shape I can more easy work toward a round shape. This put a sideways pressure on the die and with not much room to move it put the pressure on the left "L" bracket when broke. Agreed I didn't have a solid weld, more of a "good tack" to hold everything in place while I did some pressing to make sure this quick change idea worked.

Well, it works. MUCH better than those darn bolts they Coal Iron has holding the dies in place.

Later
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