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  #1  
Old 01-14-2015, 01:41 PM
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anvilring anvilring is offline
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Randall No.1 in SS from 1963ish? rarity or no?

This is the other Randall I own (I'd have more if "more" came my way! ) And looking at this excellent thread started by "Jacknola":

http://www.knifenetwork.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=62672

it looks like a stamp from 63ish.... So were there many knives made back then in stainless? or is this a common item?



Here's a slideshow w/ sheath and stone as well:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...41987177850636

By the way I'm now using Google+ to host my pix and it's great! Just go to my slideshow, put your cursor over/on the pic and using your wheel you can enlarge the picture's details! Very cool and, free.

regards,
mitch


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Old 01-14-2015, 05:32 PM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Hi Mitch,

Nice to see you here! 1963 pretty much nails the timeframe. "SS" stamped Randalls are a rarity, and etched SS markings as yours are even rarer.

There's a collector by the name of Joe Dorsky (He's now the "official" Randall authenticator), who has a site he calls "The RMK Collector". On that site he has a write up on stainless Randalls:

The Stamping and Etching of Stainless Randall Blades

The "SS" stamping of Randall forged blades began in 1963, when RMK started designating stainless blades as such. It may have run into 1964, but it was not done this way much beyond a six month duration, and that may even be generous. The low "S" stamp ran after that for a year or so, and probably into 1965. The separate "S" stamp ran from that time through 1968 and into 1969.

Note that while productions dates are pretty clear, you could still receive a blade stamped in an earlier version but made into a complete knife at a later time. This would happen most often on less popular models that may have had some earlier stainless forgings sitting in a bin to be retrieved for use at a later time. You will see this most commonly on separate ?S? models primarily because this stamping was used for a longer period of time into the late 1960?s, therefore resulting in more blades stamped in this fashion, and occasionally showing up on knives into the mid 1970?s. That would be followed by the low ?S? stamp and then the ?SS? stamp of which you will unlikely find few if any knives made much beyond the actual date of blade forging. It is possible that these early ?SS? stamped blade were ?made to order? in the sense that stainless orders were few and far between at that time. I do know of one collector that purchased a model 8 from the early 1980?s with a low ?S? blade! Of course this instance is somewhat of an anomaly.

Pete Hamilton, former shop foreman, emphatically told me many years ago during one of several discussions that the first logo stamp incorporating the ?S? arrived in the shop during 1969. He said and as we all know, they had previously done the ?S? stamp independently of the RMK logo but on several occasions tried incorporating the two stamps as one by various means, to include brazing or wiring the two stamps together. Neither method was satisfactory to say the least, so eventually an inclusive ?S? Randall Made Knives stamp was ordered.

Note that the first inclusive ?S? stamp can have the appearance of being a separate ?S? stamped blade due to the distance from the right scimitar to the ?S?. If you look closely and see enough of them, you can tell the difference rather easily. Additionally the shape of the "S" changed a bit that was more balanced in shape top to bottom.

Being that the use of the "SS" stamping was early and of such short duration, compounded with the fact that the percentage of blades requested out of stainless steel was very small as a percentage of total production at that time, there are not too many examples around. I don't know but would guess it is no more than a couple hundred, based solely on the quantity I have observed over the years.

Also note that there are extant examples that are ?SS? etched. The more common (if you can say that) of the two seems to be the etched logo as well as the etched ?SS?, although I have seen some with a stamped logo and an etched ?SS? designation, probably the least common variation. This may be due again to the fact that not too many knives were ordered in stainless steel during that period, so a forged stainless blade may not have gotten stamped for one reason or another. Perhaps the forger forgot he was forging stainless. In any case, the three variations do exist - logo and ?SS? stamped, logo stamped and ?SS? etched, and both logo and ?SS? etched.

The low ?S? stamping is located at the bottom of the ricasso or somewhere in the vicinity. This method lasted for a year or so. There are more examples of this stamping versus the ?SS?, not only because it was done for a longer period, but also due the increase in knives with stainless blades partly due to the build up of the United States involvement in the Viet Nam war. The low ?S? stamp was used from 1964 into 1965. There also seems to be more models exhibiting the low ?S? stamp.

There was a term ?wandering S? dreamed up by someone awhile back that has been used by a few folks to describe an ?S? stamp say midway up the ricasso. Apparently an effort was made to stamp it low but perhaps it was thought not that important, or perhaps sometimes maybe you just miss a bit. In other words, I do not think it was a conscious decision to have a progression of the ?S? stamp location from low, to mid, to up (or vice versa) by the logo. For our purposes, this location of the stamp is a low ?S? to the collector.

We also need to consider that some Randall Made forged blades were etched with a logo and the "S" because of an initial weak stamp that was buffed out of the forging. This is not unique to stainless steel blades only, but can also be found on carbon steel blades. Note that all Solingen blades, carbon and stainless, have etched Randall Made logos and etched "S" if stainless.

So there you have it, the timeline of Randall Made Knives? methods used to designate stainless steel blades.


Let me know if any.

Best,

Ron

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Old 01-14-2015, 05:57 PM
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Thanks BoBlade! So I guess the blind pig found an acorn! That is really cool to know that much about this knife almost instantly!, thanks so much for the article.
I mostly collect U.S. Military knives but I gotta say... the Randall thing is growing on me!

thanks and regards,
mitch


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Old 01-14-2015, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
... the Randall thing is growing on me!
Be careful Mitch! The Randall bug is very contagious and there is no known cure.

Cheers!

David


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Old 01-15-2015, 05:35 AM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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Mitch are you storing this knife in it's sheath?
Even though it's a stainless it's still not good. Notice the vertigris on the brass.
Ronnie
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Old 01-15-2015, 08:46 AM
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True Ronnie, guess I ought to invest in a $5 knife zipper case eh?
And speaking of verdigris; how many of you remove/polish those areas on brass so affected? I myself leave it alone... just wondering what others do.

regards, m


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Old 01-15-2015, 09:43 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Mitch,

If it's as bad as yours, I remove it. The brass is actually corroding and you will lose metal over time. The good thing about brass is that it will re-grow the verdigris quickly and evenly.

Best,

Ron
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Old 01-15-2015, 09:26 PM
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One last question about this knife: how odd is this handle configuration?? sort'a "hour glass" like? I've never seen it on other No. 1s, anyone else seen such as this? special order maybe?, ever shown in a catalog? I'm assuming it neither adds, or detracts from the value of the knife just curious about it.

regards, mitch


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Old 01-16-2015, 09:13 AM
BoBlade BoBlade is offline
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Mitch,

It's called a "Commando" handle shape. Very common, especially for Randall fighter models. No impact on value.

Best,

Ron
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Old 01-16-2015, 02:36 PM
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Thanks Ron!


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Old 01-18-2015, 01:33 AM
jeepster jeepster is offline
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Mitch vertigris will destroy a leather sheath and stain a brass handle. If you find vertigris around the snaps, take a toothpick and remove it. If not it will eventually eat thru the leather. As for the brass some want a "patina." like dull brass. Others want it shiny.....like it looked when new. I polish the brass with Flitz Polish which cleans it and also is a rust inhibiter. It is good at keeping vertigris off the brass and you don't have to do this but maybe once a year. It has worked well for me.
Ronnie
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:58 AM
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@ Mitch:

Ronnie is right on about removing the verdigris from your sheath.

I also highly recommend Flitz for polishing brass and other metals.

Cheers!

David


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