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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2016, 11:48 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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hammon etch 1084 vs 1075

Hey guys so the last 1084 blade I did with a hammon I etched in apple cider vinager and it came out amazing. after rubbing it with 1 micron diamond paste above and below the line came out nice and shiny with the line right in the middle. however I just did a blade in 1075 with a hammon and I have been playing with the etch for 2 days now and I cant get even close its a darker grey color and not much contrast in the line at all. I thought 1075 was supposed to be very good at taking a etch. any one got any ideas. is there another way of doing the 1075?
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:12 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I don't think I ever used 1075 to make a blade and I believe the reason you're using it is because you plan to make a sword from it and 1075 should make a durable sword blade. That said, 1075 probably doesn't harden as well as 1084 and likely has different amounts of trace alloy elements. I haven't researched this, just thinking out loud. If it won't harden as much as 1084 then the difference in hardness between the two portions of the blade won't be as extreme and the demarcation line not as pronounced. So, maybe this comes down to the same choice we often have with other knives: you can make a sword that functions well and is durable or you can make a fancy looking sword that won't hold up quite as well .

But again, just thinking out loud here ...


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Old 12-01-2016, 01:32 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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yeh your thinking out loud deffinitly makes sense and your right it wont harden as much as 1084 and that is exactly why it will be better for a sword. I did this blade as kinda of a test of the hammon and because I was having problem with getting a accurate reading from those coupons I told you about....I don't know what I did with the coupons but the blade gave out accurate reading. and now thinking about it most real traditional Japanese swords that have a really good hammon are usually a sandwich of steels...not nessicarally a clayed blade and I am not there yet, one step at a time. I did just polish it up a lil more and I am going to try to etch again. because after the etch I found rubbing 1 micron paste wipes away some of the dark spots and brightens it up but its only going to brighten it up to whats undernieth so one more try other wise ill just put a satin finish on it. what would you call a blade that had been clayed but not etched where you can see the hammon can you say its differentially hardened? or is that only when you heat the edge with a torch and not the spine??
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Old 12-01-2016, 01:41 PM
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If you HT a blade by any method so that the edge is hard and the back is softer then that blade is differentially hardened whether the demarcation line shows or not ...


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Old 12-03-2016, 02:47 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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Just throwing this out there Ray. I'd value your thoughts on it.

I do hamons on most of my knives, but wouldn't a differentially heat-treated blade be stronger and perhaps perform better if the 'zone' where the steel changes from one level of hardness to the other was not so narrow? Wouldn't it be theoretically best practice to spread the hardness increase from spine to edge evenly across that distance?

To my mind, swords and long knives meant for impact and shock would greatly benefit from this type of differential HT (though it would negate any aesthetic pay-off).

Just a random 'what-if'.


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Old 12-03-2016, 03:37 PM
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Sounds like it might. Originally, I believe the hamon was just a happy bi-product of differential treating which was done to make the blade tougher. Other methods of gaining toughness, like laminating, were also used but I'm focusing on your hamon question/statement. While I think you may be right about the potential of a gradual temper to make a blade even tougher than the usual differential methods it would be more difficult to implement. More, it really isn't necessary.

If the goal is simply a tougher sword blade then the use of some of our more modern steels can easily provide that without any form of differential treatment. Or, changing the heat treat to produce bainite in large amounts will make a very tough blade at some expense to edge holding, much tougher than a blade with a hamon is likely to be.

The narrow zone is good for display as a hamon but the zone itself can be a weak area for the blade if the differential is too extreme. We know a lot more about HTing today than they did 500 years ago and the steels we have access to are magnitudes better. The right steel and HT can make a sword blade that can stand all the impact a human being can deliver. Look into Phil Hartsfield's swords as examples of blades taken in this direction and I don't think even his reach the limits yet ...


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Old 12-04-2016, 06:54 AM
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Break a differentially HT'd blade and etch the cross sectional area.....think you will be surprised at what you see. Especially an edge quenched blade. Clay coated will be a bit different but not much.


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Old 12-04-2016, 08:04 AM
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Thanks fellas.
Your thoughts echo my own.


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1084, arrow, back, bee, blade, diamond, edge, etch, etched, finish, harden, heat, heat treat, japanese, knife, knives, make, polish, problem, satin finish, steel, traditional


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