Looking for Grinding Set-Up Products or Jigs: Advice Needed

[JayWilson]

Hello,

I am a (very) amateur knife-maker in Mississippi, having spent a great deal of my spare time using the stock-removal method, profiling and flat-grinding blades (mostly by hand-file, which makes the hobby rather tedious and why I?ve been away from the hobby for nearly a year now).

My nephew has repeatedly expressed an interest in joining me in my hobby, which has renewed my interest. However, I wish to do it the right way this time around. We now have a larger shop area and am looking at various set-ups for both flat-grinding and hollow-grinding via jig.

My question is, what is a good set-up or product for consistent flat-grinding and hollow-grinding? I?m afraid I?m not too keen on doing it by sight alone. Any info or advice would be beyond-appreciated!

[Ray Rogers]

Get some copies of Blade magazine or Knives Illustrated from your local mall cutlery store, major news stand, or possibly shooting range/gun shop. In there you should find ads for whoever is currently selling the miracle grinding jig of the moment. A Search of these forums should turn up some threads by guys who have designed and built their own.

I understand your feeling about grinding by sight, it seems overwhelming at first, but unless you intend to manufacture tons of identical blades grinding by hand is much faster and far more flexible way to get the job done. Knife making is a skill, it takes practice just like any other skill. Like most things you get out of it what you put in so I hope you'll give it some further consideration .....

[xspook2158]

I will agree with Ray, read all you can. Illustrated magazines are a great choice that allows you to view what a process or finished work should look like.

Take advantage of the Ample Articles, DVD's and Forums that are available. Ask questions, learn techniques and develop your own style.

As for a proper set up, it will differ person to person. Some guys go all out and buy the best grinders, the best of everything, others make do with what they have available.

As far as consistency goes, practice takes care of that. Add your own quirks and twists to make it your own creation. If your work starts to look actually the same, you are just doing assembly line flies or knives.

That?s just my opinion.


Jeff

[Robert Washburn]

Ray you said a mouth full.I`ve been doing this 47 years and didn`t know what a jig was.

[Ray Rogers]

I believe the question that Jay originally asked has been adequately answered by these posts and it certainly has been the subject of significant amounts of discussion in earlier threads. Still, I have just now thought of a comparison that might serve to illustrate why we tend to shy away from the use of jigs and fixtures for grinding blades as well as for using CNC equipment to make our knives. Nothing inherently wrong with those approaches, it just isn't knife making in the sense that most of us know it. So, if you will forgive me for climbing this soap box one more time:

I admit at the outset of this diatribe that I have never played Guitar Hero but I have read about it and I have seen young people play it with great skill and enjoyment. I can't help but wonder though how much more they might enjoy playing a real guitar. The design of the Guitar Hero game simulates playing a guitar up to a point but there are no strings or frets, only buttons to push. The songs you can play are limited to the songs the makers of Guitar Hero have prepared for the game.

Learning to respond to those flashing lights on that video screen and press the correct buttons on the fake guitar takes quite a bit of effort to master. Yet, when you're done all you have is the ability to simulate playing a pre-packaged song. That same effort with a real guitar would at least make it possible for you to strum along with the chords on any song you choose, possibly even adding your own embellishments to the music and expressing yourself in a unique and individual way.

Jigs and fixtures allow you to make the blades those fixtures were designed for and they limit your ability to express your unique vision about what you think your knife should be. Guitar hero, it is said, may encourage kids to actually try to learn something about music. Maybe using a jig would encourage someone to take the next step and learn to express themselves through their grinding, if so that would be great. But, it's also easy for those things to become crutches - a case of 'well, I can do this much, why bother to do do any more?'.

So, play your music any way that suits you, it's certainly your right to do so. All I ask is that you think carefully about what you are giving up when you allow a piece of machinery to put limits on your creativity ....

[combs6136]

Hi, I agree with all the comments made here, but..........I do only hollow grinds and use a home made jig to start my grind and free hand the rest of it......Thats just me.....Good luck and keep it fun.........I do................carl............

[Matt Bufford]

I know most of these guys here who have been doing this a while frown on using jigs, understandably so. If someone came along and shortcutted something I worked years to master, I would honestly be offended too.

But that being said, I'm new to this too. I have a jig I made, and it works beautifully. I am weening myself off of it though - only 5 blades into the jig use and I find I'm free handing as much as I use the jig. For me, jigging the blades helped to shallow the learning curve by letting me "feel" what the proper angles and movements are. Now I'm mostly using it to help me find the right angle for the primary bevel, then I pull it off and finish freehand, eventually I will have the muscle memory to do it without. And I defend it's use only to the extent of what Ray said about using it as a crutch. Crutches are only meant to support your weight until you can walk without them.

I designed/built my jig largely based off some other ideas with my own tweaks that work well for me, and it is very consistant, cheap, and easy to build. Just do a YouTube search for knife grinding jig, and you will see several different builds including mine.

Good luck

[Matt Bufford]

Oh and by the way, any jig will only be as consistent as your tool rest. If you've got a rest that bends or jitters, you will need to beef it up so it will stay where you want it.

[FGYT]

nothing wrong with jigs they help you control the 6 degrees of freedom an object has

heres how I do mine (i dont hollow grind) this does full flats and scandi and my combination Flandi grind ( flandi needs some very accurate angles to get the correct profile and geomatry )

its a KMG clone the grinding head is tilted fwds to the desired angle ( ie for scandi 25 deg its tilted to 12.5 deg )
the jig is a bit of 90 deg Angle iron which the blade is clamped to you can then grind each side to the center for scandi or to a tram line for Full flat (I grind fully hardened blanks)

its defiantly faster than full free hand you still have to control the grind to get it neat and straight etc



ATB

Duncan

[xspook2158]

I know no one took your post as offensive.

I just gave my honest opinion.

All I was trying to say was that the over use of a jig may tend to make a persons work look as though it was stamped out, all looking exactly the same every time. There is nothing wrong with that if that?s the look a person wants to achieve.

I am known more as a Master Fly Tier then a knife maker (I still wonder how one can be called a Master in any craft when you learn something new almost everyday)

When I started out tying I counted every thread wrap, I measured every hair or feather, never trusted my eye. I used only the materials suggested in the books that I had read. I never differed from the norm.

Well I achieved my goal, my flies looked just like everyone else?s.

I fell into using the tools, books and opinions as if they were a bible and not as learning tools.

Well I will stop preaching and stepping down from my soapbox.

Jeff

[JayWilson]

Thank you all for the replies; I sincerely hope that no one was offended, though I have to admit that the use of a jig shouldn't be offensive to anyone, especially when it's a beginner wanting to learn how to do it right.

I'd like to receive any suggestions on a belt sander that it capable of both flat grinding and hollow grinding (I'd prefer the flat-grind section of the belt to be wither vertical or horizontal)? I've been doing mine on an old Ryobi 4inch belt sander and would like something that'll give me more options).

[Ray Rogers]

You can search the old threads and find plenty of discussions on grinders but I can boil it down for you: you pretty much will need to get some type of grinder made for knife makers if you want to hollow grind. It is possible to limp along with sanders made for wood like your Ryobi which will allow you to do a flat grind (more or less) but a hollow grind requires a contact wheel. And, you also asked for "more options". The only grinders that come with options of any kind that will help us do what we do is a grinder designed for knife makers.

The least expensive commercial grinder that comes out of the box ready to go is the Grizzly grinder at around $500. There are others like Kalamazoo that might be built better but by the time you get one set up you'll be into it for most of $1000. Of course, to have all the options you'd need to look at KMG or one of the other grinders in that class.

If you're good at building stuff you might want to build your grinder. There are plenty of plans available and some guys have built really nice grinders for $500 or even less. Most of the money is in the motor and the wheels, not much you can do about that ......