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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-06-2013, 09:44 PM
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PsychoDawg PsychoDawg is offline
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How do you guys heat your oil?

Hey guys, I have an idea for heating HT oil. First I a going to tell my idea and then you all can tell me if I'm out of my mind. I just don't want to do something unsafe.

Ok, from everything I've read here, HT oil needs to be 200+ degrees for a quench. How do you guys think a cheap deep fryer would work? I know peanut oil is safe, and delicious. Would "real" quench oil be safe in one and would a gallon be enough oil to do the job?

Did I have an epiphany or an idiot-piphany?


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Old 10-06-2013, 09:59 PM
Hurley Hurley is offline
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I'm not experienced enough to give advice Dawg, you just crack me up!!


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  #3  
Old 10-06-2013, 10:02 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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First of all 200? is too hot for oil if you are trying to do a regular hardening and too cool if you are trying to do marquenching or austempering, neither of which are for beginners. For those operations you may need to go over 500?. For regular quench hardening 120-140? will do fine as will the peanut oil.

A deep fryer works fine too. They're deep enough for even medium length knives and hold enough oil to absorb the heat from more than one blade in a run without getting too hot.

Doug


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Old 10-06-2013, 10:08 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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200 F is too high. Most of the "amateur" oils like peanut, canola, hydraulic fluid, etc should be heated to 100 F - 125 F. The pro oils work best at 150 F (the ones I've used anyway). And, they really mean that...not 'about' 150 but actually 150 F. They will work lower or higher but they work better at 150F

That same is true for the amateur oils, too hot or too cold doesn't work as well as if you get in the correct range. Exactly what the correct range is harder to say because those oils haven't really been rated for quenching steel but 100 - 125 is pretty much what we use.

Any safe method for heating the oil is OK, mostly a piece of hot scrap steel is used. But, one gallon is not enough, about 3 gallons is minimum and it should be arranged in a way that puts a volume of oil around the blade. In other words, an inch of oil in a bathtub obviously isn't going to work well and neither is a 2" pipe with 3 gallons of oil in it. Some type of tank is needed....


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Old 10-06-2013, 10:30 PM
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PsychoDawg PsychoDawg is offline
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Thanks for the input. I didn't think that a gallon would be enough. 100 degrees here in San Antonio would be easy! just sit the metal tank on the sidewalk for a few hours and presto! Hot oil!!! You could probably reach 125 easily in the summer. I think I'll stick with hot mild steel for warming the oil. I must have read info about quench oil temp wrong. Where did I get 200 degrees?

I'm glad I make you laugh Hurley! I think that the world would be better if we all just loosened up a bit! lol


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  #6  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:20 AM
Kevster Kevster is offline
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I just heat I piece of square tube in my forge for a little while and drop it in my oil, in the summer here in Texas it doesn't take long, but in the winter it'll take longer.
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2013, 06:46 AM
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Agree with advice above on temps for the "A" oils as Ray likes to call them. And volume/container dimension, as Ray explained, is quite important as well. Somewhat relative to number of blades you plan to quench at any given time.
For the "A" oils, I use an old elec. charcoal starter I got at a yard sale for $.50 and a deepfryer T-meter to check on temp. Can't leave starter in quenchant long, but will heat it up quickly. Need to check the temp in several areas of the tank, may have to stir to even out. Cold spots will cause warping among other issues.
Toying with the idea of getting a small elec. waterheater (camper size) and cutting the top out. About the right volume, insulated with built in temp control/heating element. No muss no fuss......maybe?
Just haven't found a working used one for cheap, yet. Worth a try.


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  #8  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:45 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Carl,

That camper hot water heater seems like it might work pretty good but , if you can't find one, this is what I did:



I put a hot water heater element in a 4" pipe that is 3 ft tall - that's 3 gallons of oil in there. That's the biggest pipe I could get and bigger diameter would have been better but I only do one blade at a time anyway so the oil never over heats. I've often thought about adding a thermostat to it but it just hasn't been a problem for me but probably a good idea anyway. Been using this thing for nearly 14 years....


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Old 10-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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miketheknife miketheknife is offline
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Ray, I don't know if the thermostat would work. Yes you could hook it up but they are not that accurate and they always take the temp above what the thermostat is set for and then cut off. I guess you could experiment with it but it would be a pain to have 3 gallons of oil go above what you have it set for and then have to wait for it to cool back down. I do like your set up and I now have more plans to add "stuff" to my shop.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2013, 09:43 AM
Hurley Hurley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoDawg View Post
I'm glad I make you laugh Hurley! I think that the world would be better if we all just loosened up a bit! lol
Spoken like a true Texan, man I miss that place!


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Old 10-07-2013, 01:03 PM
samuraistuart samuraistuart is offline
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I tried using my wife's crock pot for the first time the other day to heat up canola oil and quench a blade in it. What she doesn't know won't hurt her. It worked VERY well. The thermostat dial has WARM, and then 200, 250, 300, etc. I dialed it in to where the mark was just before the "W" in the word WARM, and measured it with a thermometer......130F degrees. Turn it to the "W", and you get 150F. So it is very precise and controllable. The only problem....it's not that big of a crock pot. It will hold a couple gallons, so plenty big for your average size knives. I highly recommend it, if you don't use your crock pot that often. It will get to 130 degrees quite quickly!
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Old 10-07-2013, 05:13 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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Stu, I think you meant that what she doesn't know won't hurt YOU.

Doug


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  #13  
Old 10-07-2013, 07:47 PM
Dave Armour Dave Armour is offline
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I use canola oil in my shop. 120 is what I preheat the oil to. If I'm edge quenching I use a an old turkey roaster I bought second hand. Word of advise- don't trust the temperature settings on one. They're never accurate as far as I can see. Get a couple of thermometers to check.

For full hardness blades I use smaller version of what Ray Rogers posted- 3" pipe 2' long. I don't have a heater on it. I just heat up a couple of lengths of 1/2" rod and dunk them in the tank to preheat oil to 120'.
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  #14  
Old 10-07-2013, 08:49 PM
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PsychoDawg PsychoDawg is offline
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Wow, you fellas have some snazzy rigs out there! I'm glad that I asked... Thank you for helping me get my head around all of this. It's a big help.


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Old 10-07-2013, 10:10 PM
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GHEzell GHEzell is offline
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I just heat up a steel bar and dunk it... it should feel too hot to take a bath in but not hot enough to scald (really scientific I know). I may get fussed at for this, but 1 gallon is sufficient for one hunter-sized blade, if you're quenching multiple blades or large blades you will need more oil, 3-5 gallons should handle a sword.

As far as the pro oils go, read the manufacturer's info to see how hot it needs to be, they can vary depending on the type/brand.


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