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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 05-07-2014, 02:18 PM
jeffrey.bean jeffrey.bean is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 5
draw knife steel

Hey all,

I'm a decoy maker as in duck decoys. I do upper Chesapeake bay style, the heads are roughed out with a small draw knife. Problem is, small DK's are hard to find so I figured I'd give a shot and making what I need.
The knives I'll be making are about 9" long 7/16" wide and 1/8" thick. I'll have all thread welded to the ends to attach wood handles to. The blade needs to have some flexibility to it.


So my question is, what type of steel would best suite my needs?

Thank
jeff
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2014, 02:40 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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What type can you heat treat? 1084 is easy to heat treat and would be suitable for your project. many other steels would also be suitable but most are not as easy to heat treat. So, the answer to your question depends mostly on how you plan to get the steel heat treated and/or what tools you have for that purpose.

If you plan to do the heat treating yourself you'll want to make some test blades first so that you can verify that your heat treatment is effective. It is very common for first time knife makers to complete their knives without any testing, just trusting that whatever heat treat advice they are following is correct and that they executed the advice correctly. That is nearly always a big mistake.

So, tell us your plans for heat treating and we'll go from there ...


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  #3  
Old 05-07-2014, 04:53 PM
jeffrey.bean jeffrey.bean is offline
 
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Thanks for the reply Ray

As far as heat treating, a guy I work with is getting into blade making and has a kiln.

If I make some blades from 1084, is there a certain time and temperature the steel should be heated?

Thanks
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2014, 06:04 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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A basic formula is 1550F, hold for 5 minutes, then quench in warm (125F) oil (canola is popular, do not use motor oil). As soon as the blade has cooled in the oil to the point where it is warm to the touch, follow the quench with a temper of 425F for at least one hour, cool in still air until warm to the touch, then do another temper.

Those numbers are a base to work from. Depending on the exact steel you have and the characteristics you want your blades to have you may need to change them a little. You won't really know until you finish a blade, test it to see how it performs, and then break it to see how the grain looks. If you need to adjust, the most likely adjustment will be to lower the tempering temp by 25 degrees if you determine the blade is too soft or raise it by 25 degrees if you think the blade is not as flexible as you wish. If the grain looks coarse and lumpy when you break the blade we'll need to discuss it and figure out what needs to change in your initial heat and quench process.

When you are ready to quench your blades get them out of the kiln and into the oil without delay - within a very few seconds, you don't want the blade to cool very much before it hits the oil. After the blade has cooled in the oil to the point where you can touch it without getting burned get it into a tempering oven as soon as possible since a cold, untempered blade can crack all by itself if given enough time....


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Old 05-07-2014, 07:22 PM
jeffrey.bean jeffrey.bean is offline
 
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Thanks for going into detail Ray, I'll have to quiz the guy I work with and see how much he knows.

Where is a good place to order the steel from?
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2014, 08:17 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Check alphaknifesupply.com or usaknifemakers.com They should have 1080+ or 1084 in small quantity...


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  #7  
Old 05-08-2014, 06:29 AM
jeffrey.bean jeffrey.bean is offline
 
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Many thanks Ray, I'll post up when I get some made.
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  #8  
Old 05-10-2014, 06:13 AM
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Wipe & wash the oil off before tempering (if you plan to use your wife's oven). You have time with 1084 between quench and temper cycles and you'll find it a lot more comfortable to walk back in the kitchen later on. Also use a second or extra oven thermometer to get the correct tempering heats the gauge on the oven is notoriously off and preheat the oven before tempering.
If you plan to draw temper in your friends kiln, make sure you allow time for the heat to drop down to the correct temp (they take a while to cool down).
If you are welding all thread to the blade steel, make sure you don't use galvanized AT. Burn off any coating on the all thread outside and stay up wind. Those coatings will contaminate the kiln or forge interior and outgas into the surrounding atmosphere every time it's fired up. Bad for good lungs.


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  #9  
Old 05-11-2014, 07:50 AM
jeffrey.bean jeffrey.bean is offline
 
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Thanks Carl, good info
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  #10  
Old 05-12-2014, 06:36 AM
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Might try some old saw blade steel like and old carpenter's hand saw. The real old ones had pretty good steel in them, usually L6 or something similar and should be already heattreated pretty close to what you'd want in a slightly flexible DK. Pick them up for next to nothing at a yard sale and there's a lot of metal to experiment with. Just cut up into sizes you want with a cut off disk in a side (angle) grinder.

What's your 20? Need to fill out your profile, you might live close to one of us old scroungers to get some free scrap. I've made lot of simple paring knives from these old blades just because I hated to see the old steel get tossed. I re-heat treated them for a slightly harder edge (just my preference and I can). Have also used the same steel to make small planer blades for some of my little hand planes and scrapers.


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