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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 09-26-2013, 05:05 PM
rscoffey rscoffey is offline
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Attaching guards/bolsters

When I first started following the various forums, it seemed that the conventional way to attach guards and/or bolsters was silver solder, pins, or a combination of the two.

More recently, it seems like makers have gravitated towards close tolerances and JB Weld or similar products.

I have a project I am working on that I have been planning to use JB Weld on, but I keep hearing this faint voice telling me to try solder (never done it before and, yes, my meds are up to date).

I'd kind of like to get some feedback from some of the more experienced makers out there.

Many thanks,

Bob
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:18 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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If you want to try solder then, by all means, try it. But, under no circumstances should you try it on you current project until you have practiced extensively. When you practice, make sure the fake blade steel and fake guard material are the same as your project materials because every different type of metal seems to need a different solder or a different flux. Make sure the parts fit together the same as in your real project. Use a 400 degree solder to help protect the heat treat on your finished blade. Be sure the solder flows all the way through the guard and that you chemically neutralize any flux that might remain under the guard. Be careful not to overheat and burn the flux. If you get it done right, there will be a tiny, almost invisible, filet of solder all around the seam where the guard meets the tang.

If you can do all that then you have a shot at getting the technique down for soldering a guard without ruining your blade and you will be one of the rare knife makers these days who can still use that skill. If it doesn't work out like you hope (can you tell that mine didn't?) then JB Weld will still be there waiting to do a fast, clean, job of sealing your guard to your blade with a tiny, almost invisible, filet of epoxy all around the seam where the guard meets the tang - and a zero chance of screwing up the temper of your blade ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 09-28-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2013, 06:59 PM
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Icho Icho is offline
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Just a question I would like to add. If you do solder bolsters do you still use pins? I am also considering trying soldering.
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2013, 08:58 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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You should always use pins with bolsters. Solder holds very strongly perpendicular to the tang (in other words it would be very difficult to pull the bolster off) but it isn't strong enough to guarantee that the bolster won't shear off if it should suffer a heavy impact. The pins provide shear strength....


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Old 09-26-2013, 09:43 PM
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Thanks Ray. I thought so. I will make some scrap by practicing soldering and doing some testing. Thanks rscoffey for this post. I've been thinking about the same question for a while.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:51 PM
rscoffey rscoffey is offline
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Ray - Thanks for the input. I've always found a lot of value in your posts.

Bob
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:42 PM
Larry Peterson Larry Peterson is offline
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Location: I was born and raised in Spanish Fork, Utah. I now live between Manti and Ephraim, Utah. We built a home here about 10 year ago.
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Ray,

If I may add an opinion. When making a flat handled knife I always use pins or screws (corby fasteners). Whem making a "hidden tang Knife" I solder the guard after getting a good file fit. I use aluminum foil wrapped around the tang and gently force it down into the vice. I tighten it a bit as I go and use a soft wooden block on top of the tip of the knife to tap the knife down. I end up with a compression fit with the guard held tightly in place in the vice to solder.

I clean the guard and the knife area where they come togather with acetone and after wiping I apply the stay bright flux. I use a little propane torch and start the heat at the grard. I melt the stay bright solder (430 degrees) and use a pointed piece of 1/8 inch round steel to assist with the complete flow around the guard against the blade.

I try to be careful to not get too much solder on. If I get a bit too much I use "solder removal wire strip like they use in electronic soldering operations." It is cheap and is handy. I wrap it around a popcicle stick. When finishing the knife I use 220 and 400 abrassive cloth to get it ready for polishing. Leaving too much solder in place relults in a lot of extra wotk.

I have a vice like contraption to put the handle on after the guard is soldered. The point of the blade is pushed into a piece of soft pine board and the back of the handle against the movable jaw. After gluing is complete I pressurize the handle against the tip of the knife until the epoxy has well cured. This also lockes the guard in place. All that remains to do is grind the handle to match the guard and finisn the knife details. I have been making knives for nearly 56 years now and I have never had a problem with this method.

I started using "Allstate 430" but staybright is my favorite now. If you should have to take the handle off, simply put the knife into an oven at 300 degrees, at which temprature the epoxy lets go leaving the guard safely in place. If you want to change out the guard, simply raise the temp to 430 degrees and it slips off. The hardening and tempor are not damaged.

I have probably told you more than you really wanted to know.

I wish you well, Larry Peterson
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:45 AM
rscoffey rscoffey is offline
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Thanks for all your input. I did try to solder the guard.

Made a jig to hold the guard in place, cleaned the blade and guard thoroughly. Just for grins, I used a mini-file to "scratch" the area on the tang where the guard will sit - the idea being to provide a bit of rough surface for the solder to adhere to.

Applied flux and put two small lengths of solder on either side of the blade. Heated the tang and the solder "leached" right into the gap. Next time, I will use a little less solder as I had some clean up to do afterwards.

I was concerned about flux later bleeding out from the joint, so I made a solution of baking soda and water and soaked the blade for about 20 minutes and used an old toothbrush to scrub the joint.

All in all, I am satisfied with the result. Practice is the key, I think.
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2013, 03:04 PM
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smithy smithy is offline
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Cleanliness is next to Godliness in soldering. One thing that wasn't mentioned is to clean you solder also. Lead solders can build up an oxidation over time that will prevent the free flow of the solder.

The is a type of lead solder by the name of "Tix". It is a lead based solder like Stay-bright but melts and flows at 275 degrees instead of 450 like Stay-bright. It come in a little tube containing very thin gauge pieces. This allows you to meore accurately judge the amount of solder you need. ...Teddy
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:10 PM
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racjarrett88 racjarrett88 is offline
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Steve Johnson's subhilt video recommended using a heat gun instead of torch and looked like the way to go for me.

Austin


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