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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need. |
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#1
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Handle finish help please?!?
So I'm making a cable/15n20 knife for a buddy at work. I got the desert ironwood block and buffalo horn spacer in the mail. It's going to have a wrought iron guard. I've been putting off the handle fearing Ill mess it up. This is my first hidden tang and my first go round with ironwood and buffalo spacers. I've seen lots of pics of ironwood handles that the grain really pops. What's the trick? I have some tru oil I was going to use. Do you just buff the horn and handle together to make it shine? Also what is the easiest way to etch the blade and guard? Should I put it together and etch them at the same time? Sorry for all the questions but I'd really hate to mess this knife up. It's kinda my first "sale" and i don't wanna ruin my rep from the beginning.
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#2
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I love ironwood, It doesn't require a finish, you just buff the heck out of it and it looks like it's been laquered. it doesn't shrink much, but might need some touching up after a couple of months. It will darken over time though, so the figuring won't be as clear when it's older.
It holds up well in use, I have a couple of knives I've been using/abusing regularly for years and I can still make them look like new with a fine belt and a buffing. Downside, it's hard to drill,saw,carve. But you just have to spend a little more time working it. |
#3
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I don't have any experience with wrought iron so take this with some salt and study, but as I've understood from what I've read wrought iron takes a lot more time to etch than run of the mill damascus blades. I'm sure someone could give you a better idea, but I would think you would need to finish the guard to the knife remove it etch the knife and guard separate.
Everyone has their own recipes for wood, and as far as buffalo, it pretty easy to sand and buff, but when you get a good shine to it it picks up a lot finger prints and such but man does it look good. |
#4
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Be aware that there are different grades of wrought iron. The best is old anchor chain, however that has a more faint pattern when etched. Stuff used for cage bars can have a lot of slag stringers in it that will etch well but work like a nightmare. Whatever the grade, it needs to be worked at a bright yellow; almost welding heat. The lower grade stuff tends to start crumbling if you get it too thin, especially at the ends of the piece.
As far as fitting a guard to a stick tang goes, layout fluid is a big help in scribing your layout lines. I like to lay out the center line on the long axis and where the center of the tang will be. Then measure the width and thickness of the tang where it will pass through the guard and lay out width of the tang on the long center line and centered on the line for the center of the tang. Choose a bit that is a little smaller than the thickness of the of the tang and the shorter the better to reduce wandering when you start the hole. Center punch the hole or, something that works better for me, use a center drill to start the hole. I can see the point of one of these on the line much better than I can see the tip of the center punch. These are really short bits that are used to drill the centers in work to go onto a metal lathe. You start the hole with the thin tip and don't use the countersink part. Then you can switch to a regular length bit. Just start out slowly as the bit will want to chatter until it enlarges the hole to it's shape and diameter. Jantz carries center drill as would, I would imagine MSC Direct. Clamp the work firmly to hold it in place on the drill press stage. Use cutting fluid and don't push the work. Remember also that if you are going to shape the guard blank along with the handle block then you will have to disassemble the knife to etch the guard. Even if you shape the guard first you will probably hit the guard with your file. On the handle block, my recommendation is that you do not try to freehand it. Even if you have to use French curves to help you draw out a design on graph paper like I do, make a pattern. Transfer the outline to the handle block keeping the center lines of the pattern and the block parallel. Make sure that the end of the block that you are working from is square with the sides of the block. Re-cut it with a miter saw if you need to. Find the center of the front end of the shape laid out on the block and mark it, then use a square to run a line down the face of the block then continue that line across both ends. Then mark the center of the ends at right angles to those lines. Then lay out the width of the tang centered on those lines on both ends, you'll understand why in a minute. Center punch the just inside the width marks for the tang on both ends. Also make yourself up a board from a piece of scrap with a short screw of nail sticking out one side. The end should only stick out above the board by just a little. Clamp that onto the stage of your drill press, here is where a long pillar on the press really helps, and check that the point of the nail or screw is centered to the chuck with a extra length bit or a straight rod chuck up in the drill press. Use the punch mark on the back side of the block to center the work on the point sticking through the board and drill from the other end then repeat from the other side. If you have the room drill another hole on the intersection of the layout lines. The remove the waste wood between the holes. I use a roaching tool made from an electric skill saw blade that had about a half of the back ground off. Burning in can be use, though I don't recommend that on the horn. There are other tools that you can use, including jewelers' files. Just remember to cut a little and check the fit a lot. It also helps if you don't make the tang overly long; 2.5-3" past the guard will still put the tang under the first three fingers inside the handle. With the horn, being that you will cutting a channel through both ends, lay it out like the handle block but when you drill it out, drill almost all the way through from the front. Then turn the piece over, orienting the holes on the point trough the board and drill to join the holes. You can get a rasp bit or a carbide tile cutting blade for a hack saw, clip off the connector on one end, and use that to cut from one hole to another. As far as shaping the handle goes, I have found that hand tools work better than power tools. I have two Japanese carving rasps from Woodcraft that are not much slower than power tools and give a lot more control. I also have two spoke shaves on order. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough Last edited by Doug Lester; 06-21-2013 at 10:18 AM. |
#5
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Wow. Thanks guys.
Doug thanks a bunch. My wrought is old anchor chain. First time using it. I forged it down ok. Just wasn't sure bout the etch. I'm making a file guide for the shoulders right now. It's been tough trying to square it up with a belt grinder. Maybe I shouldn't of tried my first stub tang as a knife for someone else. Haha I tried to lay the block out the other night but got a little confused so I didn't start drilling holes. I had just finished a 14 hr shift at work and was on about hour 4 in my shop. By then all my numbers and marks were a mess. Lol. I actually have center drills and I didn't even know it. Found them in an old box of tools from my old job. Dunno why I had them but glad I did. Does horn just need a good buff? Thanks for everything guys. |
#6
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One other thing that I forgot is that if you are wanting to put a pin in the handle through the tang, drill the pin hole before you start shaping your handle so that the sides of the block are still parallel with each other. You also want to drill out the tang channel before you cut out the shape of the handle. Also, when you do cut out the outline of the handle, cut just a smidge to the outside of the line to give a little sacrificial wood to work with. Remember that you can cut the excess off but you can cut missing wood back on.
Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#7
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The horn works like alot of man made materials pretty easy and its not real brittle, I hand sand to about 800-1000 is and it polishes up to a mirror.
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#8
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Awesome. I dunno what I'd do without you guys. Every time I have a question this community totally amazes me. I have sent a couple emails to a couple of the guys I consider "big time makers" asking a question, or looking for some help. I have yet to be let down. I've gotten all the info I could of asked for and then some. And it wasn't like it was weeks later. It was very fast and I'm very greatful for everything that everyone has done for me. I'm leaps and bounds ahead of where I'd be without the help. So again thank you
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#9
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When I was a new newbie the way you're being treated is the way I was treated. That makes me obligated to do it with others. But you're right, I do like this site and the other knife making sites that I post to.
Doug. __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#10
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Test a piece of the WI with what ever etching solution you are going to use. I prefer warmed white vinegar because it is slower and more deliberate, but what ever you use test first. Get your timing and procedures right.
On the horn and ironwood. They will finish and buff well, but with different techniques. If you buff the horn aggressively it will burn. It is softer and will respond to abrasion at a much faster rate than the IW, so make sure you use stiff backing when sanding/shaping and buff carefully. It will also change dimensions on you with changes in humidity, temp and BP....after all, it's just highly compressed hair. Sounds like it will be a right smart looking knife...looking forward to seeing pics. __________________ Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member Knifemakers Guild, voting member Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts C Rex Custom Knives Blade Show Table 6-H |
Tags |
awesome, bee, beginning, blade, block, damascus, drill, etch, fixed blade, forged, guard, handle, hidden, horn, iron, ironwood, knife, knives, make, making, sand, spacer, spacers, tang, wood |
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