Progression from frustration

[jdale]

Starting the weekend, I had the hopes to have three knives to completion. Doing my homework I thought I knew what my saw blade steel composition was and how to HT it. Apparently, I was incorrect, and after HT, I was left with three nicely shaped ground knives that would not stand up to the file test. However, through my frustration I took a break and got the inclination to make some mosaic pins. I think they turned out ok for a 1st try. Using 1/4" and 1/8" brass tubing, 2-ton epoxy, copper wire, stainless wire, and piano wire I ended up with these. (Sorry about the blurry pic it was from my phone)
[IMG][/IMG]

The knives I made out of saw blade (saw blade 1.5' by just shy of 1/4" thick). HT to just past non-magnetic, quenched vertically in transmission fluid heated to 130degrees. Time from forge to quench was around 1-1.5 seconds. Held in fluid for 30 seconds after convection stopped. Using three passes with a chain saw file put a good size notch in the handle. I tried to see if I could still easily drill through it, after making a shallow depression in the steel it quickly ruined my drill bit.
I am going to try and so some HT testing on some of the saw blade I have left, I was thinking of trying "super quench" and straight water does anyone have any other suggestions.

I have to give a big thanks to Ed Caffrey, his tip on going 50grit to 400grit has turned out to be such a time saver, and I also have to say at first glance buying some "APG #36 Refractory Cement" seems to have been a good move. I have not done any grinding on the blades and I can clearly see a hamon showing through.

[Eli Jensen]

Pins look really good! The two on the bottom left looks like you could use a little bigger pins on the inside for a snugger fit. As far as the HT goes, the steel could be crap. The only thing I would suggest method wise is getting it into the quench faster.

[Doug Lester]

There are a couple of possibilities here. One is that you did harden the steel, at least in the section that you tried to drill. Another is that your bit was not fully sharp and the steel work hardened as you tried to drill through it. What you may do is austinize a piece of the steel, or the blade if you're willing to scrap it, and quench in water. Then strike it with a hammer. If it shatters it may have enough carbon in it to make a blade with.

As far as the quenchant goes, you could try vegetable oil, it will be faster than transmission fluid and won't put harmful vapors in the air when used as a quenchant. If you are dealing with a shallow hardening, moderate to high carbon steel, doubtful, water or brine might help you beat the nose of the IT curve.

Best suggestion is to forget the mystery metal and get some known steel. Admiral Steel, Southern Tool Steel, Kelly Cupples, and Aldo Bruno at The New Jersey Steel Baron all sell good blade steels in small quantities.

As far as those pins go. It looks like you did a good job. Initially I wasn't much impressed by the small pin with the two rods inside but the more I look at it the more I like it. It's different.

Doug

[Ray Rogers]

Good advice you've received here. One more piece: when working with a new/unknown steel don't make 3 blades at a time. That just triples your error rate. Make one knife to completion at a time until you are absolutely certain of your process.

The pins do look good. Is the glue in them in the picture, I don't see any. Usually a good idea to color the glue on pins where a lot of glue will be visible....

[GHEzell]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

Good advice you've received here. One more piece: when working with a new/unknown steel don't make 3 blades at a time. That just triples your error rate. Make one knife to completion at a time until you are absolutely certain of your process.

Better yet, make a small test blade and try it out first!

In the end, you are better off investing in new, known steel, than investing all that time and labor only to find out the steel is some bi-metal HSS stuff... but you have learned that the hard way and don't need us to tell you. Aldo is the guy to talk to about steel...

You could try a faster quenchant (canola oil heated to 120f or an engineered HT oil, or if you're really brave, warm brine) and hope for the best, but odds are not good.

[jdale]

To be perfectly honest im not too dishearted that the blades might make it into the letter opener pile. I chose blade shapes that I couldn?t make from my 1095 or 5160 bar stock without heavy forging. I really needed practice and I wanted to challenge myself with a shape and dimension ive never done before. Sure it would have been great if the steel I researched turned out to be what I thought it was, but every knife is a learning experience. I worked on getting a more accurate plunge cut, keeping more uniform grind lines, better blade design, and more planning as to the look of my handle. I learned a lot and it only cost time and one 400 grit belt. At least I know the hundreds of lbs of 3' diameter saw blades I have are not going to do a lot but sit around until I figure out what they are good for. Since I have nothing to loose and 3 blades to play with, im going to try using super quench, brine and water. Who knows, maybe Ill get lucky.

[jdale]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

The pins do look good. Is the glue in them in the picture, I don't see any. Usually a good idea to color the glue on pins where a lot of glue will be visible....

I did color the epoxy and it is in the pins in the picture. The only 2 ways i had to cut the pins created alot of heat and i think i kept melting the epoxy. I just got a metal band saw, so im going to try and re cut the pins to see if the color shows up.