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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 11-12-2012, 01:55 PM
bworldwide bworldwide is offline
 
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making blades from old steel carpenter's squares

I have made at least one blade from very old steel carpenter's squares.

However, I never got around to finishing the blade because I wasn't sure what kind of steel it was and how to best heat treat it.

The steel squares I am using are mainly old beat up no longer square "squares" from flea markets. Based on my experience with vintage tools, I can tell that the squares I have are pre-WWII and most likely could be as old as 1900-1910.

Prior to annealing the steel and doing pre-grindings, the steel seemed incredibly hard and unyielding. After annealing, the steel was much easier to work. Based on this, I have somewhat determined that the steel is indeed some kind of high carbon tool steel. But what kind - I don't know.

The reason I like squares is because sometimes I can buy them for $1 at the flea market. For that price you get enough to make two knives as the blade end of the square is usually about 1 1/2" - 2" wide and 12" long, and the tongue is about 1" wide and 7-8" long.

I got one the other day and I want to cut the small end off and make a good little hidden tang sheath knife from it this winter.

What kind of steel am I likely to be using here, and has anyone made knives out of these old squares before? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 11-12-2012, 08:09 PM
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DwaneOliver DwaneOliver is offline
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Its really a crap shoot , could be anything.
If you have a bunch of them , just try hardening it and tempering it back a few times , test it and try it again.


Look here , its cheap and you will know exactly what you have.
http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/1084/

Dwane


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  #3  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:41 PM
bworldwide bworldwide is offline
 
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thanks. I would have to assume that given the original application, the steel must be a harden-able tool steel with a suitable strength capacity. Squares get dropped, stepped on, etc.

I agree that there is only really one way to find out: make a blade out of it assuming it is something similar to 10-- series steel or maybe 5160 or some equivalent, harden and temper and check the durability and edge holding ability.

I was just wondering if anyone had specific knowledge about the use of such metal for blades and thought perhaps there was a certain kind of steel they were usually or typically made from.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:48 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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The old addage about "assume" would apply here. Just because they are old doesn't hold credibility (I'm getting there myself).
Unless they are all by the same maker of the same era, then Dwane's statement about a crapshoot is spot on. It is not likely you will find someone still around with the pre WWII knowledge you seek. That kind of info didn't time travel well.


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Old 03-12-2013, 08:25 AM
Diomedes Diomedes is offline
 
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Given the original application, I would be wary of using squares for knife blades. They are not particularly expensive tools, and would generally have been stamped out of a lower carbon steel. While they needed to be stiff, they did not need to be particularly wear resistant. A low carbon, cold rolled steel would still be much easier to work after annealing, as would a quench and tempered thin plate of 1040, but neither would make particularly good knives. Just my 2 cents. An old carpenter's plane or saw might be a better choice, for what it's worth.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:40 PM
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jank jank is offline
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I sure can't help you with the squares, but a lot of us got started with O.F. steel (Old Files) cheap and high carbon content.

Before I would spend a lot of time grinding and fitting, I get a piece anneal it heat treat it like you would 1095 and temper it put it through some test to see how it holds up.
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:39 PM
Imakethings Imakethings is offline
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You're going to have to do 6-10 different HT cycles to narrow it down.
Firstly get a couple different KNOWN H.C. steels, 1020, 1040, 1060, 1080, and 1090 would be my suggestions.
Cut some strips that you can cut from your squares, 1/2"x3" should be enough.

Harden your known steels to their max, measure how much pressure it takes to break them in half.
Do the same with a sample of your mystery steel.
Check against your knowns.
Tada! Now you have a ballpark to work from and a vague idea of what it is.

I could explain all sorts of ways to do this, but an R.C. tester would probably be the easiest.
You're in no way going to be able to get the specific type of steel doing this, but if you really want to....
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