Questions on powdered steel

[Dan Graves]

I just got some 1084 and 4600 powered steel and itching to get started. A few questions. I want to start with the cookie cutter method where I will fill the cookie cutter with powder. I know the powder will reduce so do I make the container 2 times larger than the cookie cutter so as not to distort the cookie cutter pattern (fill container with powder). The cookie cutter is nickel. Also, I hafe some u channel that is galvinized that looks like the right size for the can. Will the galvinize mess up the welding? Also any tips would be great. Thanks.

[azmike]

don't know if the galvinizing will mess up the weld (uneducated guess-yes), but it might do a number on you. you could run it thru a sand blaster to remove the coating. mike

[Jon Christensen]

Dan,
First off, do yourself a favor and forget about the galvanized steel. I don't use it for anything that requires welding of any sort. Your health is worth more than any savings you might see from using it. It's just not worth it.

Use the thinnest walled tubing you can find. Under an eight inch is preferable. You have to gring the can off after welding/reducing the billet. My first powder billet was some scrap tubing that was over 1/4"wall thickness, lots of work and grinder disks to remove the shell.

I like to have at least a 1/2" of powder around the perimeter of my object, 3/4-1" is preferable. When you start welding it up (I'm assuming your using a press for this) take small bites on one side, turn it and take the same sized bits on the other side. If you take too large of bites the sides of the can will pucker and be forced into the interior of the can, creating lots of work when cleaning it up and distorting your pattern. The pattern will also show less distortion when working it evenly with small bites.

I usually do my initial welding on my press. Small bites on each side and then back into the forge when it starts cooling. As soon as it starts feeling solid I know its welded, I then go to my power hammer and start working it.
Good luck!!!!
Hope this helps,
Jon

[Dan Graves]

Jon, thanks for the advice. All I have is a power hammer but I am good enough to tap it and not just beat heack out of it. Any tips on knowing when it is all welded? Also, any good advice on some simple patterns to start with?

[mete]

Zinc fumes are toxic ,don't use galvanized. Zinc will mess up the weld, don't use galvanized.

[Jon Christensen]

Dan,
Your power hammer should do the trick, just work it slow and back into the forge when it starts to cool. You should feel it firm up and get solid when it is welded. It will be soft and mushy when you first start to hammer on it so start out slow.

After you have welded up the can and attached the handle place the handle on your anvil and see where it want to come to a rest, then drill a small hole in the top of your can to let out the trapped gas as the billet is heating up, this way your can won't bulge. You find where it wants to rest so that when it is in your forge the powders won't be falling out of the can (in case the hole is pointed downward). If you are sure that you have some incomplete welds on your can with holes/voids you may not have to do this step. Some sparks may come out of your forge regardless, this is powder coming out and I always have a little of this happening.

Tom Ferry gave me some great advice a few years back on patterning. He told me to stick with one pattern I like and do something different to it each time. This way you can see how each step affects the pattern. You'll be amazed at how many different thing you can achieve doing this with one simple pattern. I like to make my cans as large as possible so I have lots of material to do different manipulations to. After you decide what initial pattern you want to work with try resquaring, radialing, twisting, recombing in a loaf, or any combination of these, etc.

Good luck,
Jon

[Dan Graves]

Well, I got the can welded and am ready to add powder. Just cant decide what to try. This stuff is expensive so I want to be successful the first time. I am wondering if on the scraps if they have to have scale removed? I am assuming they do. The can is 3" square. Will post when I figure it out and weld. Thanks guys for all your advice.

[Ron Claiborne]

Dan welding on a power hammer is tricky to say the least the can will try to rip apart due to the internal heat created in side the can from the outsides moving .the best way to get it done is like jon mentioned do -not try moving a lot at anytime and i say alow the heat inside to catch up to the outsides this can make it slow to begine with but it will begine to thighen up some .
as you know a press moves things inside first the hammer moves the outsides first the skin will streach or dent easy its tap tap tap all the way till you get it solid the press moves things in a squaring die so its much faster . i have found that the thicker the end caps are the less distotion inside the can , just be sure that you tap tap the ends first then move into the fild --- you can take the ends smaller then move the fild to the same size it should hold its pattern but if you alow the center to get smaller then the ends the pattern will distort also remberthat when finished the thick caps will be a larg part from the ends it will move to the size of the bar lets say you start with thin wall tubing and 1/2 caps when the billit gets to 3/4 x 3/4 the caps will take up to 3 to five inches of the bar at both ends good luck it can be done with a hammer .
but like you said its exspencive -- if it were my first time i would use shaving to learn on then powder when i perfected the hammering process

[Dan Graves]

Thanks guys! A lot of good information here. I will use shavings on the first try. The are from a brake shop and are coated with, I guess cutting fluid. Will that hurt? Can I just put small pcs of nickel and maybe get something for fittings on a knife? Again, thanks for the input as I would like to get something the first time as propane is soooo expensive now.

[B.Finnigan]

Would muffler tubbing make a good can? It's very thin, cheap and easy to find.

[B.Finnigan]

Can you forge weld high carbon steel powder and stainless steel powder? I know that nickel powder can be forge welded with HC steel and stainless has alot of nickel in it. I am guessing that the pattern would be interesting after etching since the nickel would resist it more then the HC steel.

I am doing my first can weld tomarrow but before I spend alot of time cutting/collecting stainless steel powder I thought I would check. Time is valuable and I hate wasting it.

[Jon Christensen]

Yeh, I,ve used muffler tubing in the past. It was large, probably 4-1/2"-5" dia. By the time you get it square it should be firmed up and welded.

I have no experience with the SS and high carbon powder question so won't attempt to answer that one.

Good Luck
Jon

[B.Finnigan]

Now I have a good reason to try it. I will probably only use 10% SS and with some 1080 and enough cast powder to bring the carbon up to 90% +/-. I will post the results.

[B.Finnigan]

I just remembered last night that most muffler tubing is galvanized. Maybe not not such a great idea after all. So far using 1" mild steel tubing is working good, it has a 1/16" wall so there is not alot of post grind removal to deal with.

There is not alot of info out there yet on can welding so I am flying half blind. But that is how I learn and make new discoveries.

[Dragon cutlery]

soak the whole tube or cookie cutter in vinigar it will eat off the zink then wire brush and repeet then it should be ok to use