MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-05-2014, 09:46 PM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 359
2 Questions to help me understand

Hi guys, I need help. First, I am making a hunting knife and drilling my holes. 4 - 1/8" and 2-1/4". I got all 6 drilled and wanted to check
and make sure that my pins all fitted correctly. I mic'd my rods and they are all dead on, .125 and .250. The pins will not fit. I was told
once that drill bits are NOT to true sizing. Since they didn't fit, I mic'd the bits; .121 and .245 ... really ???
So the pins don't fit and I am drilling one size up. Here is my issue, I use DeWalt Cobalt bits and have never had a problem drilling through
anything until tonight. From the .25 I went up to 5/16"(.312) and burned up 2 bits. I easily got the smaller bits through the steel with NO
problem. I should mention that I am using 1080 soft and not HT. I always use either type of cutting oil when drilling. I even tried a step
down bit and burned it up. Can anyone help me and tell me what I am doing wrong or what I am missing? I am using a drill press and tried
speeds from 390 up to 1100, no difference.

Second question ... why do manufactures make bits that are not true to size ?? I went through all my bits of different companies and steel,
I could NOT find a 1/4" bit that was .250 ...

I included some pixs to show the blade and the bits being used. The .312 looks like a countersink (looks the same on both side as I tried
3 different ways and bits)

[IMG][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]
[/URL][/IMG]

Thanks for your education and sorry for the rant
Troy
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:34 PM
Don Robinson's Avatar
Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brownsville, Texas
Posts: 4,873
Are you measuring the bits on the shank? Drills are tapered from the tip to the shank. Measuring across the cutting adges is the way to get a size.

The rules for drilling steel with HSS drills are: use dry to cut waay oversize. To cut undersize, use oil. to cut oversize use water.

To make the hole to size, use a reamer.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-05-2014, 10:41 PM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Robinson View Post
The rules for drilling steel with HSS drills are: use dry to cut waay oversize. To cut undersize, use oil. to cut oversize use water.

To make the hole to size, use a reamer.
I have never heard that before. I was told to always use an oil to keep tips sharp and
bit cool while drilling.

Seems like I need to go buy a couple new bits and a reamer.

Since I believe the got the steel hot and hardened, where should I go from here?
Troy
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-05-2014, 11:16 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Kelowna B.C. Canada
Posts: 66
i use a size #30 for 1/8 " hole and size #12 for 3/16 "and size f for 1/4 " hole . these are just a bit over sized . get a drill bit chart off the web to get all your drill bit sizes .
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-06-2014, 07:50 AM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
A little cheat for trouble work is a concrete drill bit. It has a carbide bit. They are not pretty to use but will get through. More than likely your bits are just dull and wont go through. You can learn to sharpen your bits. Yesterday I purchased some cheap bits, the 1/4" bit didn't even make the first hole. I sharpened it and it did much better.
Also, a pilot hole can be used and you can step up. I've used a 3/16 concrete bit and finished with a file.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:42 AM
DanCom's Avatar
DanCom DanCom is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Leduc County, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 314
It's really difficult to cut a slightly larger hole when you are using only a small portion of the bit's cutting edge. I've tried this with a cobalt bit and it burn up on hardened steel. In your case, you are going from 1/4" to 5/16" and that's 1/32" of cutting edge on each side. Things get hot and dull pretty fast. Ideally you want all of the cutting edge in contact with the steel.

My workaround is to use a diamond coated die grinder bit in the drill press. They make them in Dremel sizes as well. I simply evenly "walk" around the inside of the hole. Once I had some mosaic pin that didn't fit after heat treating the knife. I know most guys will sand the pin to fit, but instead of sanding the thin walls of the mosaic, I opted to enlarge the holes.




Dan

Last edited by DanCom; 07-06-2014 at 09:49 AM. Reason: Added image
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:58 AM
ATalley's Avatar
ATalley ATalley is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Greenwood IN
Posts: 325
Could using the dull bits, and/or higher speeds have work hardened the materiel around the hole you are trying to remove? If the steel around the hole hardened; then nothing short of a cobalt bit would cut it. Maybe some machinists or more experienced metal workers could chime in here. I suppose if you try a round file and still have trouble cutting, you could carefully anneal that area of the tang and then use your drill bits.

I may be looking too much into this, but it stands to reason in my mind.

As far as the variations in bit sizes , I haven't had that problem. I use 3/32" size pin stock and 3/16 for thong hole tubing. I plan on increasing the size of the thong hole tubing to 1/4" soon and I'm sure I will run into the issue of what you described here.

Thanks for posting those questions!


__________________
AT

"We shall walk with a walk that is measured and slow,
And watch where the chalk-white arrows go
To the place where the sidewalk ends." Shel Silverstein

Last edited by ATalley; 07-06-2014 at 10:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-06-2014, 10:12 AM
Icho's Avatar
Icho Icho is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 173
When trying to go with the next size or two up on a hole that is already drilled you have to slow the drill press way down. Actually less than yours is rated for. Also it is even more important to have it clamped down to the table because the drill bit is very likely to grab. Learning to sharpen bits is an asset especially when you have to open holes up to the next size. I avoid pilot drilling unless I am drilling a hole 1.00" or bigger which is usually not a concern with knifemaking. The holes are likely work hardened but may only be the surface where the bit contacted so a sharp hss drill bit running slow enough shoild still get you thru or what Dan said about the dremel bit or even a mounted stone wheel would work great also. Hope it works out for you without too much frustration.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-06-2014, 11:57 AM
Don Robinson's Avatar
Don Robinson Don Robinson is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brownsville, Texas
Posts: 4,873
You probably work hardened the steel by using too high an RPM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-06-2014, 03:05 PM
damon damon is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NE Tennessee
Posts: 409
I keep a few carbide bits for my pin hole sizes.

they are not cheap, but they do cut
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-06-2014, 06:16 PM
Seemus7's Avatar
Seemus7 Seemus7 is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATalley View Post
Could using the dull bits, and/or higher speeds have work hardened the materiel around the hole you are trying to remove? If the steel around the hole hardened; then nothing short of a cobalt bit would cut it. Maybe some machinists or more experienced metal workers could chime in here. I suppose if you try a round file and still have trouble cutting, you could carefully anneal that area of the tang and then use your drill bits.

I may be looking too much into this, but it stands to reason in my mind.

As far as the variations in bit sizes , I haven't had that problem. I use 3/32" size pin stock and 3/16 for thong hole tubing. I plan on increasing the size of the thong hole tubing to 1/4" soon and I'm sure I will run into the issue of what you described here.

Thanks for posting those questions!
To break into a wok hardened area, I use a freshly sharpened drill bit, and use a lot of force initially to break past the hardened surface. It can take a few goes though. (Dril then sharpen, drill, sharpen and on. It is also not a bad idea to use a smaller bit when breaking through, then drill to size. This way the finished hole will be nicely finished and not marked/scored up from the process.


__________________
R Rogers Knives
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2014, 08:16 PM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Indiana
Posts: 359
Wanted to thank EVERYONE for their help and insight !!!!

I am going to try all your recommendations and get my drilling correct with
the correct bits.

I thought to drill bigger holes that I was supposed to step up my holes to achieve
the bigger one. I now know NOT to do that again. Colbalt bits into the wood only pile
Troy
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-06-2014, 09:38 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
I use carbide bits for drilling pin holes and then a carbide bur to carefully enlarge them. I get the closet fit that way.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, dewalt, diamond, drill, edge, education, file, help., hot, hunting, hunting knife, knife, make, making, o-1, pins, press, problem, sand, sharp, steel, tang, thong hole tubing, tips, wood


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wrought Iron - I don't understand it Rocket_Jason The Outpost 16 05-08-2007 02:28 PM
Don't understand what happened 440C SVanderkolff Heat Treating and Metallurgy 3 04-17-2007 05:10 AM
never will understand him gerald The Trade Report 13 03-15-2005 02:57 PM
Help me understand what this tells me. Bob Warner Feature & Member Support 31 01-04-2003 02:38 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:05 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved