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The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

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  #1  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:35 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
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New to forum, want to make fillet knifes

Hello everyone, I am going to thank anyone beforehand for any knowledge they wish to share.

I was thinking about getting into knife making (because fishing and shooting and insert expensive hobby here wasn't enough already) and was wondering the best way to go about it. I'm looking to make some fillet knifes as well as hunting/skinning knives and possibly pocket knives, mostly for gifts. I inherited a plethora of steel tools from my grandfather a while ago and would like to start using them. So far I have a metal drill press, various metal drill bits/milling bits, disc/belt sanding station machine, dual 8 inch grinder, and a load of taps, dies, picks, gauges, bits, clamps, etc that one could expect a tool and die making employee for a large automotive company to own. I have pretty much any tool I would need to cut and shape metal to become a knife as well as any polishing tool needed once the knife was ready to be polished.
From the research I've done it seems like I will also need these things:
Forge for heating and various tools to handle heated metal
Quenching system
Heat treating equipment

Can tempering be done in you stove oven? We have a dual oven with convection lower that can get as hot as 600 degrees but that's it. I am also a little nervous about reading that you need LN to cool the pieces once they are HT. Seems like a bit of technique that is well above my level of skill.

Any advice or knowledge willing to be shared is appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 07-15-2017, 08:51 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Lots of questions that I will defer to the more experience guys but to put your mind at ease about a couple of those last questions.
Yes, you can temper in your own oven or even a toaster oven. Just dont trust the temperature settings to be accurate. Get a good accurate thermometer so you will know the temp. 600 degrees isn't necessary, most tempering is done under 500.

LN isn't necessary for producing a good blade. Some guys want to tweak aas much as they can out of a steel and opt for using LN to do that. Many knifemakers, heck I'll guess most, dont use LN.

You can use a forge for HT some of the easier carbon steels but you'll soon want to go beyond that and will not be able to get optimum HT with a forge. So unless you plan to build a cheap forge(and they are fairly easy and can be cheap to build), you can buy a HT oven for not much more than a good forge and it will enable you to get much better results and use some steels that just cannot be suitably HT in a forge.


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  #3  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:13 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I want to tell you a thousand things, but I'll wait and think about it for a while.
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  #4  
Old 07-15-2017, 09:28 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
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Thanks for clarification on some stuff. I've seen some yupube forges made out of coffee tins and fireproof material, and als some that use firebrick in a hole in the ground with a shopvac blowing over coals, they seem easy to make but not sure about the safety level of them. I have some O-1 tool steel and was hoping to be working with it, since it's readily available and is not super expensive. Are there better steels that are easier to work with regarding heat treating and tempering?
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  #5  
Old 07-15-2017, 10:17 PM
PoolQs PoolQs is offline
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There are many here that will be able to answer a lot of your questions. I like to use Aldo 1084 because
you don't need a fancy set up to make a good HT and is a very forgiving steel. Many knifemaker's send
their blades to professional HT'rs. I send all my stainless to Peter's and have never had any issues.
I am able to do the rest and not have that big expense.

(Shameless Plug) Hopefully Ray will be chiming in soon. He has a couple of DVD's on "All about making knives"
They are step-by-step on EVERYTHING you need to know about making a knife, sheath, and HTing.

Good Luck, Have FUN, and stay sharp!!
Troy
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2017, 11:10 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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SteelP

I have no qualms whatsoever about using O1 in a forge. Can you bring out the best it has to offer? NO and you can't with any other steel either in a forge.(what's the temp?) Personally I think O1 is quite forgeable and the sweet spot HT temp is 1475. It should be held there for 10-15 minutes, but you do not have a HT oven. Forge will have to do. O1 is as good as 1084 in a forge. I use 1084 hardly at all, but I do use O1. Learn your temperature colors and read up on O1. I was a heat treater at a machinist shop and am very familiar with 1475 degree temp and color, O1 is resistant to being overheated, but will over heat so be careful. It is superior to 1084.


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  #7  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:30 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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As everyone said lots of questions there and some of the info is a lil vauge like the fact that you have a belt sander (belt grinder) you don't say what kind some are made for knife making some are close to impossible to make a knife on.....I was new here a few years ago and have seen other new cguys come through over the years with out a doubt the first thing you need to do is make a propane forge and order some 1084 carbon steel (it is the best to learn to heat treat) go get 5 gallons of canola oil too....I am sure Ray will throw in his wisdom pretty soon but he has made a video on exctly how to make a propane forge ........you cant do ANYTHING until you learn to heat treat if the steel is soft its not a knife it is a " knife shaped object"

I just tryied to send you a private message to your "user CP" at the top of the page but I cant maybe cause your account is so new it might take a day if you can send me a message or you know what just email me if you cant do a private message its " DODOKNIVES225@GMAIL.COM " I latterly just helped another new guy with the same process of getting everything set up and learning how to heat treat.....It is WAY to much info to put in here but if you email me I can copy and paste that info to you...I think YOU will find it VERY helpful....it is the exact process I went through when I was new and I have helped a few guys go though it since...all of us go through a similar thing...I will send you links where you can order what you will need too...let me know
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  #8  
Old 07-16-2017, 06:33 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Oh I ment to address the liquid nitrogen thing.....Don't even worry I said 1084 carbon because that you can heat treat in a forge and canola oil NO Liquid nitrogen.....you can do that with most carbon steels 1084 is the easiest start there....NOW I do use liquid nitrogen but that is because I don't use carbon steels I use stainless but to use stainless you need a $2000 heat treating oven the temperatures need to be exact wich you cant accomplish in a forge so unless you want to use stainless and want to spend 2 grand on a oven and 800$ on a container for the liquid nitrogen....don't worry stick with 1084 now you don't need the liquid nitrogen
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  #9  
Old 07-16-2017, 07:10 AM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
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Thanks for the help everyone, I'm gonna set out to do more research today. Would stainless steel be a must have for a knife that would see occasional salt water use? The reason I ask is not for fillet but was thinking about also making oversized bait cutting knives that need tombs able to cut through semi frozen fish that are about an inch in diameter, but have the possibility of seeing a splash of salt water or two during their usage for a few hours before being able to be cleaned.
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  #10  
Old 07-16-2017, 08:04 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Stainless steel is not a must for salt water fishing but it does have obvious advantages for some types of knives. Most stainless steels benefit from LN but can work just fine without it. The good news on stainless is that it is easy to send it out and have it professionally heat treated. The carbon steels you should heat treat yourself in your forge or furnace.

As for fillet knives, we will be starting a new KITH in a few weeks and it will be about fillet knives. You will want to at least follow along with it and possibly even participate ...


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  #11  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:03 AM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
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The sander is a delta twin purpose sanding station thing. It has a 6 inch circular backed sanding disc and a 1 inch backed belt.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:42 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Yeh ray is right (as always lol.....ya know I have been trying to catch you slipping with a wrong answer for years now and really I think I am giving up it just doesn't happen LOL) but yes most stainless is HELPED by liquid nitrogen not needed

I did a search on the delta grinder and couldn't find exactly what you were talking about can you take a picture of it? my best guess especially the fact its only a 1 in belt probilly a 1x30 it wont be the best tool for the job but is it possible to use it yeh probilly. The 2 main factors are #1 the motor it might not be strong enough to put in bevels, I am sure you could do little touch up work with it deffinitly sharpening maybe after the bevels are in you might be able to go up in grits to get a better finish but I doubt it will have the power to remove a lot of material like creating the bevels...but hey I may be wrong it all depends on how strong the motor is.....Secondly is the belt size you said 1 in so probilly a 1x30 but ok the best way I can explain it is I have a 2x72 grinder the belt is a lot biger so your belts are going to wear out much quicker than mine just because there isn't as much there....even with my 2x72 belts wear out on each knife IF I start with 60 grit to do the bevels I use that for 1 knife and never again (sometimes if it has a lil grit left ill use it for profiling but never for bevels OR going up in grits....I am sure if you took a pic some other people would chime in to...
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:45 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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SteelP....You may have your "private messages" turned off. if you turn them on in the user control panel I will send you a couple things that might be very usefull to you....or email me
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
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I have a 1x42 Delta belt grinder with an 8" disc on it and I used it for years and still use it. I also have a 2x48 belt grinder as well made by Dayton with a 3/4 HP motor. It is very high speed and great for hogging steel, but not so much for handles which is what I use the Delta for mostly now. I have made quite a few knives with the 1x42, but it isn't ideal, but you learn to work with what you have.


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  #15  
Old 07-18-2017, 09:40 PM
SteelP SteelP is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Delta belt/disc sander combo.

Here is the delta I have. It's a Benchtop unit and isn't the biggest thing in the world but I think if I repurpose the motor to be a dedicated belt only unit I could get it to work.
Sorry if the pictures are big i don't know how to resize for this forum.



Another option would be to make an attachment for my drill press which has beyond enough power to run a 2"x**" belt. I'm thinking something that can bolt to the drill press table and just swivel the table 90 degrees so it's not directly underneath the press and take the belt off of the drill machine and run it to the top of the sanding unit.
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