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#31
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Okay, here's the bottom line: I hope we recognize America in a other 4 years, and hope, if we are in ruins, the folks can have enough intellectual honesty to see the failure and elect someone that can dig us out (if that would be possible). I don't want the US looking like Greece in another few years.
Since we are more polarized that in any other time in history why not split the country in two and let the conservatives live under their form of government on one half and the libs take the other? Voila! problem solved . I'm not adding anymore to this thread after this post. It is curious, though, that the most vocal of the lot is that one that got his man in the White House. Why complain when you won Just a thought. Cheers, Dana |
#32
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I really hate these threads and I commend Ed on keeping an eye on things. Folks, remember that not everyone sees things the way that you do. If you can't see why the heck someone could possibly vote for Obama remember that there are those of us who can't see how you could have voted Romney for X,Y, and/or Z reasons. Remember this also, the country will survive. The Constitution is intact and we still have three branches of government that can check and balance each other. The United States has survived much worse presidents than Obama or what Romney could have been and it will continue to as long as we have a populace that is politically involved and respects the rule of law. So fuss, bitch, grip, celebrate, or gloat as your heart dictates then get about the business of being Americans and work with each other instead of against. What this country cannot survive is a populace that is so polarized that we are constantly at each other's throats and vilifying anyone who doesn't see things the way we do.
Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#33
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Instead of repeating the same deficit stories, how about looking at timelines, spending and borrowing and see for yourself when control switched over. Please note, 'fixing' what the previous guy broke should mean the deficit gets smaller. Run the math, if your guy does the same spending and borrowing of the previous administration, and gave every unemployed person 50k. I think you would see that we would have zero unemployment and less deficit. Look to see how the money was spent and what's to show for it. What's a teabagger? reid hasn't put out a senate budget in close to four years, Paul Ryan was hammered before and particular after the VP running mate announcement for....his detailed budget proposal including jobs creation. Drilling on public land? It's severely restricted down and small increases in domestic petroleum production are on private land. Selling energy to China, only if they pay more, right? That's tons of high paying American jobs supporting the American economy, but where's the rule that says it has to be sold on the foreign market to net pennies on the dollar. If the will was there, a stroke of the regulatory pen could mandate that it has to stay at home if you want the permit. Same with health care. All of the advantages that you see could be had legislatively for...free. Portability, preexisting conditions etc. etc. could be legislated. If you get the chance, look up what it will cost an employer and imagine if it were dumped on your lap, how easy it would be to keep let alone hire a new employee. We have the best health care in the world bar none. As we know there are always exceptions, but we are not an unhealthy nation, and there always have been safety nets for anyone. When your leaders say they are doing the peoples work and the republicans are filibustering, take a little bit of time to look up all the spending strings for pet projects that are attached. The military budget is a great example, they've had to cough up billions out of their mission for green projects, the recent east coast gas give away and things like cash for clunkers. Interesting even four years later benghazi can be brushed off as being someone elses fault. The previous president is a good team player. I'd think it'd be tougher to blame him if he ran to a microphone every other day like past democratic presidents tend to do. |
#34
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Sorry, cdent, but I couldn't let the "best health care bar none" comment pass. I've worked in health care since high school and when I see that phrase I just about want to gag. There are many groups to blame but we have a poor system of health care delivery and it's getting worse. There are many countries that have better outcomes for a far lower costs. We have far to many treatments that do nothing but enrich the medical industry. Too many patented medications that are no better but far more expensive than generics. Too many treatments that present more danger than the disease that they treat or leave the patient worse off than if nothing had been done in the first place.
Yes, we probably do lead the world in the development of innovative procedures and medicines but only offer them to the people who can afford it. We are the only industrialized nation in the world that considers adequate health care to be a privilege. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#35
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#36
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I have a son that owns a business that he built from scratch, happened to be in the right place at the right time, and employs between 650-700 people. He says that with Obama back in, he will have to lay off some people. His co. is large enough that he is what they call self insured on health insurance. He said that when Obamare gets kicked in the employees insurance premiums will at least double if not more. He is the second business man that I have heard make the statement about having to lay off people.
There are already a lot of doctors stopping seeing Medicare patients and there will be more in the future. My wife and I have already had to deal with this. __________________ Walter R. Powers |
#37
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Crammed through without regard to constitutional procedure? The last I checked the Supreme Court said that he health care regulations put forth were allowed by the constitution. I also not do recall the president saying that his primary job was to make sure that no Republican lead initiatives became law nor has he vetoed bill after bill the way the Republicans have blocked votes in the Senate. As far as conservatives being will to work with the President, they sure have had a funny way of showing it. Bipartisanship is an extinct species in the Congress, though I hold both sides equally responsible
Is there a better way to handle health care? Undoubtedly. Is Obama the reason that doctors are stopping taking Medicare patients. No, that has been going on for decades. I worked for a hospital back in the 80's that was put out of business due to Medicare and Medicaid regulations that forced it to provide care for less that what it cost to run the hospital. Will employers really have to lay off employees due to health care costs? Possibly, but that, or dropping health insurance altogether, due to the cost has also predated the Obama administration. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#38
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Obama doesn't work with the GOP? Honestly? Obama caved to them so often, he completely infuriated his base. It wasn't Obama who stood in front of the country and said, "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president. " That was Mitch McConnell. And it wasn't Obama who went on to use the most filibusters in the history of the nation, or the most obstructive house and senate in history either. Obama ain't perfect, and has made a lot of mistakes, but you cannot blame him for this. The facts do not bear it out. Again, they day of his inaguration, the GOP got together and held a meeting where they swore to oppose EVERY single thing the President put forth and endorsed, even things they previously were for. No president could get much done in conditions like this. No other president has faced such a thing. |
#39
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I realize this is a highly charged subject, but let's just ensure that we keep it on track with civility. Everybody is doing great right now.....just don't let your emotions get the best of you and I'll let it keep going. Thanks!
__________________ WWW.CAFFREYKNIVES.NET Caffreyknives@gmail.com "Every CHOICE has a CONSEQUENCE, and all your CONSEQUENCES are a result of your CHOICES." |
#40
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Hey Doug, He's taking over 700 billion dollars out of medicare. He is at the very least the specific reason there will be that amount of services decreased. He has said it will all come from eliminating waste and fraud, but the CBO says that at the most that would come to around 60 billion. Seniors who paid in all there working lives are being bombarded with sales pitches for supplemental plans. Either pay as you go or through a supplemental plan, seniors will be hit financially in a way many can't afford to be. As an aside, one of your points about US healthcare problems was prescription drug costs. Didn't the president consult with big pharma companies while creating ocare and give them assurances, such as blocking direct prescription purchases from Canada, that they would not face competition for their support. I'm just not the biggest fan of the various socialized medicine countries, and those are generally where stats come for getting more bang for the buck. If I had truck load of money, I'd still have my wife treated in the US for anything even if I had the pick of the world. Which country would you go to if cost were not a factor. Craig |
#41
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You are right
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Cheers, Dana |
#42
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I asked my son what would be the main issues that would cause him to have to lay off people since Obama got back in and these are the reasons he listed:
MAJOR TAX INCREASES Medical Insurance cost increases Regulation increases This will be the first time in 17 yrs he will probably be laying off anyone. A large part of his business is in the health care industry, hospitals and nursing homes. __________________ Walter R. Powers |
#43
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Sorry, supplemental plans were around long before Obama. Medicare has never covered all the costs of health care. As far as blocking the reimport of medicines from Canada, that has been illegal for years, even before Bush 43. Also, has it ever struck you as odd that you could get American made medications from Canada cheaper than you can get it in the US? Most of that money that he took from Medicare is what was paid private insurance companies to administer Medicare as a supposed cost savings that turned out to be a cost increase.
As far as tax increases go, we will have to have them. Politicians have been selling the people on the idea of a free lunch for so long it's gotten to the place that it's caused a recession and a reduction of services. Medical insurance cost increases have been rising faster than the cost of living for decades and they would have raised just as quickly as Romney's health care plan, you know the one that Obama's pattern after. Oh, yes, and regulations, the lack of which gave us things like Enron, which was given special exemption from existing regulation, the collapse of the housing market, and the derivatives mess. But I forget. Wall Street knows best, along with Bernie Madoff. Cheers. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#44
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You know, it's just struck me that this whole thing is useless. The people who believe that Obama is the worst thing to happen to this country ever are still going to believe it and those of us who felt that Romney would have sold the country out to Wall Street will believe that. We all voted our votes and the Democrats won and the Republicans didn't. We're happy and you're not just as you would have been happy and we wouldn't have been if the vote had gone the other way. So my best advice for you is to get over it just as it would have been the best advice for us if our side had lost.
What will happen will happen and the country will survive in the end just as it would if it had gone the other way. So I'll take the advice of an old Irishman: Never argue with an idiot. You'll confuse the onlookers and they'll not be able to tell who's who. (For those who can't tell, that's said tongue in cheek) If you want to post a reply, fine, but I have no intention of reading it. It's time for this to end. Doug __________________ If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough |
#45
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Got my hand up, I'll be the idiot here. For me, it's never been about feelings, emotion, whiners or losers. I'm only interested in the issues and the facts, and I'll admit if I'm wrong. I wouldn't have commented if this was a cheerleading thread, but I perceived questionable things that were presented as facts. I don't like beating the ole dead horse, but now and then you see a little twitch. Thanks Ed C. for the latitude. Great place to visit and I'm always interested in what Doug L. has to say. Craig |
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