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  #1  
Old 06-14-2001, 06:02 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Finished with pics


Well, I've been forging up quite a bit of chainsaw chain damascus. Is anybody interested in learning how to do it? Be glad to show you how it's done. Let me know, and I'll work up a tutorial with pics and everything. Waiting......
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2001, 06:06 PM
Raymond Richard
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Max, I got some old chainsaw chains just waiting to become a knife, you got my vote. Ray
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2001, 06:37 PM
armed and hammered4
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Any knife tutorial is a good tutorial go on and post it
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2001, 07:06 PM
MIKE KOLLER
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


D:All the above
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2001, 07:57 PM
MaxTheKnife
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This is where I start


I'm too pooped to do it tonight. I'll do it first thing in the morning. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2001, 08:33 PM
gthomas
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Yes! I have a whole carboard box of chains that I've been dying to do something with!

Guy
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2001, 08:48 PM
Baltes189
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turorial


Thanks Max. I was wanting to make some chainsaw damascus too, well when I get better
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2001, 07:28 AM
MaxTheKnife
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Ok, here we go. First, make sure the chain roller doesn't have any plastic in the chain you're using. Plastic will be bad news for welding. I've never experienced it myself, but it will leave a residue behind and foul up the whole process. At least, that's what I've heard. Besides, if it has plastic in it it's probably foreign made chain.

Anyway, clamp a short wood dowel or steel rod in your vise so you can hang the chains from it to stack them and wire them up. I like to do the first 2 or 3 wirings on the dowel so it stays lined up, then take the chain off of the dowel and clamp it in the vise just tight enough to hold it securely. Clamp it close to the last wire you twisted up. Then just work your way down, wiring it at least every 2" or so. Closer is better. You want the chain to stay stiff long enough to get your first three welds and folds done.


This is what you'll wind up with. Wear a glove on the hand you hold your billet in. That chain will ruin your hole day!

Now, start with a clean fire with plenty of coke. It's really easy for me now that I have my clay liner in the forge pan. I always had trouble getting up to a good welding heat before I did that. Now, it's like magic.

In my experience the coal really doesn't make that much difference. I've been burning up some really ugly coal and have had no problems getting consistent welds. All you have to do is make sure to use coke over the fire grate. I usually start out with a frog hole, bat cave or ducks nest in order to keep all that crap from gettin into the nooks and crannies of the chain. But, I've had good results just burrying my chain in the coals and cranking like hell too.

Probably the most important partin welding up chain is the first few heats. The first heat is to burn out all the oil and get rid of the rust and dirt from the chain. Just bring it up to a medium red heat and whack it on the anvil a few times, turning it over and whacking it on all sides to get rid of all the crud you can. Whatever is left after that should come out with the flux.

Next, take it up to a full red head and just before it starts scaling up pull it out of the fire and wire brush it quickly and flux the snot out of it. I mean really put the flux to it. I'm using anhydrous borax that I got from Ken Beatty (thanks Ken). It works great, but you can use 20 mule team too. It's a little sloppier is all. The thing to remember about flux with chain welding is to flux that billet every time you take it out of the fire. It's extremely important that every single link, tooth, roller and pin is completely fluxed and this takes a while.

The first welding heat is where the magic starts. For that first weld, I always take the chain to the point that you just start to see a few carbon sparks jumping off on the end. Immediately take it to the anvil and lightly tap the chain together starting from the end and working your way toward your hand. This should set the weld. It's important to orient the chain properly for that first weld. Never try to weld the chain together from the tooth side. Always set the weld by hammering the flats of the side links together. In other words, hold the chain so that the teeth are facing left and right or horizontal, not up and down or vertical.

Ok, so anyway, during that first welding heat you want to do two things. 1 - Set the weld of the side plates on all the chains in the bundle. 2 - Flatten the loop formed by the chain at the end. You'll weld the loop together on the next welding heat. Now, before the chain loses it's red heat, wire brush it and re-flux it and put it back in the fire. You only want to heat about a 3" section of the chain at a time while welding. That's about all I can manage to weld successfully at one time.

On the second welding heat get a little tougher on the chain. Once you get it up to a welding heat take it immediately to the anvil and set the weld on the loop end you flattened and really go after the part you set the weld on with the first heat. Turn the billet teeth side up and hammer that side firmly to pack it for more efficient welding later on. You'll begin to feel the chain getting solid on the second heat.

On the third heat you will finish up the weld by really using some force with your hammer to compact the steel and get it ready to fold for your first lap weld. While the chain is still at a good red heat, hot cut about 3/4 the way through where the weld stops or about 3" from the end of the billet. Don't cut where it isn't welded or it might break when you try to bend it. If you don't have enough heat to make your bend wait till the next heat. In any case, before you lose your red heat, wire brush all sides of the billet and re-flux and put it back in the fire. Get the area you just hot cut red hot and wire brush it and make your fold carefully and just tap it together for a nice tight fit. Be sure to fold away from the cut side and make your cut as close to 90 degrees or square as possible or it will fold crooked and make a mess. Re-flux and put back in the fire.

This next weld is a little trickier because you're welding unwelded chain to a welded billet because of your fold. I've tried welding up the next section first and then making my fold but it doesn't seem to work as well for some reason. Anyway, heat the folded billet slowly up to a welding heat and proceed just like with your first weld working on the unwelded side of the billet. Set the weld on the entire length of the 3" billet, wire brush, re-flux and back in the fire. I always take a minimum of three welding heats on each section of chain to be sure it's welded up good with no holes or inclusions.

Once you get the rythym down it becomes very simple. When you get the folded billet forged into a solid piece, make another hot cut at the junction where the lap weld ends. In other words, when you put the billet on the hut cut hardie, the end of the lapped billet should provide a stop for the hardie so you can get as close to the welded area as possible. Make your cut like before, wire brush, re-flux and back in the fire. Finish your fold making sure all the crap is out of the joint first. Weld up the billet to a solid hunk and you're ready to go to the next step.


This is a three layer billet after the final weld. Ready to cut off and weld to a handle for forging into a bar.


Here's the same billet after welding onto a bar of mild steel for forging into a bar and ultimately a blade. Two in this case.

Well now, that's an ugly lump of damascus ain't it? He he. Now comes the fun part. Clean that clinker out of your fire pot! and get ready to pound out a blade or some bar stock. It's brute force work from here. Just draw out your bullet until it's the proportion you want. You'll need to keep fluxing your billet and welding until there are no more holes, cracks or inclusions. Do this until the billet is smooth and uniform. Especially pay attention to the sides of the billet where the folds meet. It's real easy to get a cold shunt in this area. Grind it off if you get one. There's no other way to be sure.

I usually draw mine out to a 1/4" X 1 1/4" X 10" bar and go from there. But, I guess it depends on what you're going to forge out of it. That's a good size to start from for most projects though. Chainsaw damascus works fairly easily. I compare it to 1084 in forgeability. I heat treat it just like 1084 as well. The same tempering and everything. I've had real good results with chiansaw damascus. As long as you don't burn out all the carbon during the welding process you'll have some excellent blade steel that has some of the most interesting patterns I've experienced with damascus.

It's always a different pattern too. Totally random pattern. That's what I like about it. It's like that box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get



Here's my bar from the billet in the pics with the beginning of a Scagel blade growing off of the end. I usually forge the blade to shape then cut it off leaving just enough for the tang and go to my cutler's tongs from there. After I forge the tang to shape I finish up the blade holding the tang during forging. That way you don't scobb up your blade during the forging of the tang. Have fun and let me know how you do with your chainsaw chain projects.


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  #9  
Old 06-15-2001, 07:29 AM
Dana Acker
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Go for it Max. Chain welding is the most difficul to get right, in my opinion. Any and all info would be extremely welcome.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2001, 02:23 PM
Raymond Richard
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Re: Chainsaw chain damascus tutorial. Anybody interested?


Max, Thanks for the tutorial, you got it up alot sooner than I thought. I was wondering if you have done a twist with any of the chainsaw chain once in a billet? If so, what were the results? Excellent job on the tutorial. Ray
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2001, 03:50 PM
MaxTheKnife
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Hey Raymond, I did a twist on the very first billet I forged up. I didn't much care for it, but intend to try it again just the same. I almost twisted the billet in the turtorial because I'm a little twisted myself and it just seems natural

Here's a pic of the blades I forged from that billet in the tutorial. Sorry guys, no recurves this time. These are Scagel style blades for a special project I've got going with a fellow knifemaker. Kind of a collaboration thing. The small blade is the raplacement for that failed attempt I showed just before the blade show. I traded that little beauty for a custom leather forging apron from Ken Rowe at the Blade show. Now I don't know how to act




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  #12  
Old 06-15-2001, 03:52 PM
foxcreek
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Chain Saw Damascus


Wow Max. DY-N O -MITE. Who ever said a picture was worth a thousand words was right. Thanks man.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2001, 04:01 PM
primos
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Good job Max. Make sure Dogman gets this into the Reference & Tutorials section.

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  #14  
Old 06-15-2001, 04:27 PM
dogman
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I love chainsaw damascus. I have a billet of Chuck Hawes chainsaw I am planning on using. Not enough for a fixed blade, but enough for two folder blades or lots of bolsers.
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2001, 04:32 PM
primos
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Max,
The pattern is great. I love Scagel styles too. I didn't know you did them. Do you have any pics of finished Scagel style blades?
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