Another Newbie Question

[JediOkie]

the steel i'm using is 1084. so if i understand the basics, I need to heat it until it is nonmagnetic, edge quench (oil?) until flamage stops and then drop the rest of the knife in there. clean it up and temper it in the oven at 375-400 let it cool to room temp and repeat.

Is that the sum of it?

[RICK LOWE]

Jayson, that's the basics. Remember to heat your oil to around 120-130 degrees. Check with a magnet as the temp comes up. You want to quench as the temp is on the rise. In other words, you don't want to go way above non-magnetic and let it cool down to that point. Be careful to keep the tip from getting too hot before the rest of the blade hits non-magnetic. 1084 usually will give you a nice transition line with an edge quench. I've had good luck tempering once at 375 and then once at 400. See what works best for you.

[JediOkie]

What about the quenchant. I've read Wayne G's recipe but my wife doesn't let much animal fat, rendered or otherwise, near the house (special despensation for Prime Rib and grilled foods). I've heard others speak of using motor oil, but I've only heard of using used oil. Can you use new motor oil out of the bottle? Or should I try and hit up some of the oil and lube places about town and see if they will let me use some of their used?

Automatic Transmission oil also works well. New or used.

[Robert Mayo]

You can use peanut ,canola or corn oil and obtain good results from them if your temps are right and there is a lot less stench than from burning motor or transmision oil. If you ask at your favorite restaurant they will probably give you a pail of used cooking oil.
Bob

[AcridSaint]

Jayson, I have good luck mixing motor oil and my wife's vegetable oil... probably something like 30% vegie and 70% motor oil. I think this is a faster quench than straight motor oil.. probably makes it closer to used oil since it thins it. New oil is fine, just use whatever is cheap... to heat it I just bring a scrap of steel up to red and drop it in the bucket, it's not very scientific, but it works.

I've been told that you don't need to preheat synthetic oil and have used it at room temp with good results on a knife. I don't think you should mix synthetic with anything else.

[frank1213]

I have been using some synthetic, I had a few bottles that I knew I would never use and was looking for some used oil one evening and finally said to heck with it. I think I also had a bit of STP transmition treatment or something that i threw in too, maybe half a quart to the other 3 or 4 i have been using. I have noticed that it doesn't stink as bad as dino oil and it doesn't seem to flame up as bad. I heat it up about 140-150 or so before quenching. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Thingmaker]

$25 per gallon for genuine high-performance quenching oil from Darren Ellis versus $28 to $32 per gallon for motor oil that will break down after only a few knives. No brainer.

[Kevin R. Cashen]

Well Thingmaker you know where I stand on this one, but the question to ask is if Jediokie plans to make a couple of knives for fun, or intends to produce any quantity and would like to have the 10th knife come out somewhat in the ballpark of the last nine. And even then you will be a minority with the suggestion of quenching oil. Of course even if you are dumping it out after 3 uses $25 versus $32 is still a persuasive argument. I am, however, happy to see not much reinforcement for the "goo" concept, your best bet for things less than air hardening will alway be actual liquids that can conduct heat away.

However all that being said (and I am prepared to duck )... Jediokie, if you have your heart set on the edge quenching technique described, I personally would find some old tranny fluid or the like, as flaming an actual quenching oil will only ruin your investment in short order, while one may not notice as much of a diffference from flamming old automotive products or crisco.

[Thingmaker]

Good points, Kevin.

Goddard himself stated in the book that he only uses the "goop" for road shows. It travels well, since it doesn't spill.

I somehow didn't process the bit about flames the first time I read through. Would they really self-extinguish, or would the oil fire just keep on going?

[AcridSaint]

Hey guys, I'd forgotten about this thread - just a bit of necro here.

I wanted to mention that I'm sold on professional quenchants as well, especially since there are some very inexpensive sources for them. Parks is available from Darren, McMaster-Carr sells a fast oil (though not as fast as parks) for roughly half that, or you can even order direct from Houghton and their Houghto-Quench K is very comparable to Parks 50.

[son_of_bluegras]

Originally Posted by Thingmaker

$25 per gallon for genuine high-performance quenching oil from Darren Ellis versus $28 to $32 per gallon for motor oil that will break down after only a few knives. No brainer.

That is the expensive motor oil. $7-8 / qt. Going the cheep route of $5-6 that puts it in the range of quench oil. Personally I wouldn't use motor oil since there are all kind of additives in it these days and petrol products give me a headache. Since I'm too poor to buy pro quench oil I use veggie oil, which I've seen as cheep as $10/gal at one of the box stores (peanut for turkey friers).

ron

ps one day I still want to try fquench oil but I have doubts with my current set-up (heat treating with a charcoal forge) that I would notice a difference.