turning away business

[SVanderkolff]

What are your thoughts on turning away business, when you are not busy. For the third time recently I have had to tell a customer that the style of knife they wanted was not something that I make, nor am I interested in making. Am I being overly particular? I have stayed away completely from the tactical style of knives yet I get established customers wanting me to make them for them but it is simply not a knife style that interests me. Do other have this same problem?
Thanks
Steve

[Bob Warner]

There are a lot of people that make a lot of things they do not want to just for the cash.

Basically, you have to make yourself happy first. If making tacticals are not what you want to make, and you don't need groceries, I say don't make them. If you make things you don't like, it is just a matter of time before you start to hate going to the shop. It is just not worth loosing your passion for what you do.

Never leave a customer without options.

I personally would decide on a maker that you could refer those customers to for the knives they want. This way you are not just dumping them but sending them to someone that you know will treat them right and make them a good knife.
Maybe that guy would send a few people your way also.

[SharpByCoop]

Three things strike me as somewhat incongruous:

A. "...when you're not busy"
B. "I get established customers wanting me to make them for them..."
C. "...it is simply not a knife style that interests me."

Of course you need to make what interests you. But doesn't satisfying your clients interest you? And don't you like to earn income?

I don't like Rap, but if I were a record producer who was looking for work, I sure as heck wouldn't lend a blind eye to a form of music that sells by the millions--*and* I had an opportunity. You can see the similarities.

Coop

[Chuck Burrows]

Sorry Coop - but I'm going to agree with Bob on this one.

I'm in this business because I want to enjoy what I do. Yes money makes me happy but I used to get real unhappy when I just worked for the money. For instance I make only Old West Leather goods - generally - once in a while I make a "modern" piece but they are few and far between and must have something "interesting" about it in order to get me to make it. It's part of my code to do only those pieces that are enjoyable to do and yes it is sometimes hard to turn work down, especially since this is my sole source of income, but when I used to take on those "other jobs" it made me miserable. Sometimes I do satisfy a GOOD clients other wants, but more often now a days I steer them to a maker who can give them what they want, because if my heart isn't in the work how can I do my best work and that is what I want to give my clients.

No I am not going to get rich monetarily with this code, but my riches are counted in many other ways.

As to rap music - NO I don't care how much money I might make I would not "sell my soul" by having anything to do with it any more than I would have doing something illegal just because it might make me a bunch of money????? (no disrespect Jim but if one stretched that logic to that degree .....) Of course everything is relative to ones own outlook on life so everybody needs to make their own decisions.

Just my dos pesos.

[severtecher]

Stephen, I hate to gang up on Coop, but I too would not be interested in making spec knives if i could sell all the ones I enjoy making.
The dagger i purchased from you is well executed and really struck my eye. I want to buy a makers best so as a collector i find an artisian who's body of work appeals to me and let his/her expression come out .
I recently purchased a knife, made for me , by Josh Smith. I saw many examples of his work and told him the particular things i liked about his various pieces. Not much more than that, no sketches , photos ,etc. When the knife arrived I was MORE than pleased with the results. I believe Josh enjoyed the project and man , does it show.
You make Vanderkolff happy and we will all be happy.

[hammerdownnow]

Should you ask Picasso to paint a Monet.

Could you or I write a hit Rap song?:cool:

Would it be right to ask Hill to make us a knife even tho his heart is not in it? Would seeing him sell out like that break your heart? It would mine.

....yet everyday I wade thru roses and butterflies, tribal armbands and old english lettering to get to the black and grey portraits that I really want to do. I gots to feed my babies.

How hard would it be to save those 25 dollar a pair snake wood scales and slap on a 1 dollar a set micartas and call it a tac.

Anyone remember the big stink when dude advertized his" Tactical bird and trout"

Bottom line. Do what you think is best, but weigh all your options.

I like ganging up on Coop, he can take it. But remember he is also a savy buisiness man. I on the other hand , lead with my chin.

[SharpByCoop]

Guys,

Nobody's ganging up on me. It's all good dialog. Your point is valid, and so is mine. Fire when ready.

I'm off for a long ride. Where's my P-Diddy CD....??!

Coop

[hammerdownnow]

P-diddy is passe'. Your OF is showing.

[RogerP]

I can hardly imagine anyone being critical of a "tactical maker" who declined to make a fancy quillion dagger because he wasn't interested in making that kind of knife. It should be no different for you. Bottom line is that your knives are fuctional works of art that bear your name. If you can't see your name on a particular type of knife, then it shouldn't be there. No apologies.

Of course, as has been suggested, it would be helpful to refer your customer to a maker or two who might supply the type of knife he wants. This shoudln't be hard - there are lots of tough-looking black and grey knives out there with even tougher-sounding names. Give your customer a short list of tactical makers who might meet their needs (in terms of price point and turn around time). I can't imagine that this would impair your relationship with your customer. At least, it shouldn't.

Roger

[Don Cowles]

If there is a single seed of discontent or unrest in my knifemaking, this is it. Since I am not (yet) dependant on knife sales for my livelihood, perhaps I can be a little more hard-nosed about this than the starving artist.

I accepted an order from a friend a year and a half ago against my better judgement. It is for a knife style that doesn't interest me, and with which I have had no experience. I rue the day. That knife has cost me hundreds of dollars in scrapped materials, lost sleep, etc. I have come to hate it. It has a negative effect on me every time I glance in that direction.

This is not, of course, the first time, and each time, I swear, "Never again!"

I genuinely want to offer for sale that which I enjoy doing, and which I can do best. Why would a customer come to a brick mason for an Eames chair?

Steve, stick to your guns. Just say "No."

[Don Robinson]

Another interesting thread for me. I make all kinds of knives, from small pocket knives to large tactical folders and fearsome weapons. That's what I like. Variety.

I've had customers ask me to make swords, but I've always declined, only because my furnace isn't long enough.

I've had several conversations with customers that went along these lines: Will you make me a knife like this picture, but with a longer blade? etc. etc., My response is usually that it won't be balanced right, it won't look right, it won't function correctly, absolutely no, etc.

Looking back, I've almost always made that knife, with a little(or lot) of tweaking on my part. I always let my customers see their WIP, so we usually wind up with a knife that satisfies us both.

A few of those knives that I at first didn't want to make are now some of my favorites. It's fun to mix other people's ideas with your own. Sometimes you learn something. I've liked every knife I ever made, with the exception of a few when I first started.

Here's the latest example. A woman came into my shop and asked me to make two pocket knives, one for herself and the other for her father as a Christmas present. She looked at pictures and 3 or 4 knives I had on hand, selected a design for her father, then told me she wanted a hole in the blade on her knife. My reaction was, "It'll ruin the blade. It might break". She says, "It's my knife and I don't care. I probably won't use it anyway". Well, I recently finished and delivered those two knives. Here's a picture of her knife. I like it!

[Geno]

Part of the beauty of being an artist is that you can express yourself in your work. If you produce work that has less expression, you will not feel the whole joy of the experience.
Cash is cash, no argument.
Reputation is what sells your work tomorrow.
The MANY orders I take have made me a more versital knifemaker.
I enjoy creating, simple as that.
I have, do, and will turn down requests that make me uncomfortable, but the challenge is what makes you expand the limits of your horizons.
If you make the same thing everyday, you will not only get bored, you will grow stagnant in your inspirations as well.
If you only want to produce a couple of kinds of knife, OK, but if you want to be a versital maker you have to challenge yourself to expand, and learn new things.
I don't make tacticals(no personality), or waivy daggers(kris) by choice.
I can, just won't.
A plastic surgeon asked me to make some of my fancy composite blades into some fillet knives for he and his buddies to use at the coast when they go fishing.He wanted to order 1200 dollars worth of blades at once, but when he asked my opinion, I told him that some cheep fillet knives would do what he wanted, mine would too, but might be overkill for for his need.
He appreciated my honesty and bought the cheepies for the coast, but he wound up buying over two grand worth of knives that day for the trouble I saved him. Now hw has the best of both worlds, and I have a customer for life.

I have two rules when it comes to my artwork.
Be honest with the customer and be true to yourself.

[Jason Cutter]

Some of us are artists, some of us are businessmen. Some of us are somewhere in between. Its the difference between the internal need to create and the pressures of an external demand.

At this point in my own development as a maker, I am still keen to go a certain distance to accomodate the customer, even if something doesn't really "get" me, just for the sake of doing it. I might be in a better position to give an opinion after that. Thats one way I've been able to state what my likes and dislikes are.

Thats been my experience so far. Jason.

[Dementia]

i agree that some of us consider ourselves artists and some more business minded... but i like to believe that one of the unifying traits of most makers is a wish to see quality in our work.

personally i consider myself an artist.
i am for sure never going to call myself a businessman... the last time i checked i was earning something like 0.2cents an hour.
but i do what i love and i am happy to make sacrifices for it.

if someones heart is not in a piece, then i believe that it shows through to the finished product.
half of the creation process if a passion and love for what you do.
if you loathe the work that you are doing i think its going to start to show in how you do things.

i have redirected customers to other makers before, simply because the specific blade that they wanted wasnt something that i could or would produce to the standard that i would be happy with passing on.

but if someone comes to you and asks for a specifically styled blade, then there is obviously something about the way you make your blades that has caught their eye.
if this is the case, then i think that some people would be willing to change their design ideas slightly so that you can still make the blade that they want ... but you both come out happy in the end.
(so long as they know why, i would think that you could still end up with some business.)

and if they dont want to change at all then its easy to have another makers details on hand that you can pass along, afterall if its your style or ability that they like, then you might well see them back again for a blade you would actually like to make.

or i could just be nuts.


D.
the penniless bladesmith.

[Chuck Burrows]

Addendum to an intersting thread:
I spent years and years and years doing whatver came my way and yes much of this work gave me experiences/training that I would probably never have gotten any other way (paying my dues I guess - lord I hate that term). Still being true to ones heart I found is more important than even that.
Like Don taking on work that I really didn't want has cost me mucho dinero, but the cost in other ways is uncountable - so if it doesn't feel right than my adviceis don't - orders for "your" stuff will come.

Roc - if you ever get out here to Durango I'll trade you a sheath for one of your black and grey portraits - my favorites too.