Decisions, decisions, decisions

[smithy]

I have never made a good, usable knife. Forty years ago I bought a few blades, did a little silver work for the pommel , and used whatever I had laying around for the handle. They looked nice, but wouldn't hold up for a minute in use. After a 35 year absence from any kind of knife making, I am going to make "good" knives.

First, I want to use a good steel for the blade. From what information I could find, I want to use 1084 or 1095 steel. Opinions, please ...

Second, the design for the first knife I want to make is about 9 to 10 inches long. Is this viable for a starter knife? Opinions please?

Third, I am going to do my own heat treating in a programmable casting oven which goes up to 2000 degrees. I can't find information about temperatures, soak times, etc. A point in the right direction would be VERY helpful.

Finally, I am having trouble sourcing steel in small quantities. The only place I can find 1084 is EBay. Any recommendations?

This site is a wealth of information. However, my search skills (hell, include all of my computer skills ) requires all the help I can get. As always...TIA

[Ray Rogers]

Of the two steels mentioned, 1084 would be preferred for this first knife. As for small quantity sources there are several, try alphaknifesupply.com Get a catalog from as many knife suppliers as possible, huge amount of info in those catalogs. Find the suppliers by reading ads in Blade or Knives Illustrated magazines. Find the magazines in major mall book stores, news stands, mall cutlery stores, or gun shops.

9 or 10" OAL would be about right for a first knife.

Alpha Knife Supply also lists HT specs for most steels they sell. Since you have a programmable oven you can also consider 440C stainless. Great blade steel and very simple to HT.....

[Doug Lester]

You could also try The New Jersey Steel Baron. He carries 1084 in a variety of sizes. He, Aldo Bruno, also carries a 1095 that was specifically produced with enough manganese to heat treat reliably. He has also talked about getting 15N20 thick enough for the stock removal people to use for smaller knives. Aldo is also a knife maker and can give you heat treating instructions. I think that most of his flat stock comes in four foot lengths.

One place that you can go to for heat treating instructions and other data is ASM International at www.asminternational.org. You will have to establish an account with them, free of charge, which will allow you to download data sheets for a small fee, usually about $15-$20 dollars, directly to your computer. They will also create your own personal library of what you have purchased that you can access at any time. Besides data sheets, they also have short articles on things like heat treating.

There is also a book that you might find handy. It also just happens to be published by ASM International. It's Steel Metallurgy for the Non-Metallurgist by John Verhoeven. You can order it from the publisher or you could get it from Amazon. This will give you the physics of what's happening with steel which is a bit different from the metals that you are used to working with. It's also written a bit with the knife maker in mind.

Another book is Metallurgy Fundamentals by Brandt and Warner. I don't think that it's quite as good as the other book at explaining the physics but it does a better job of explaining how to read things like carbon phase and isothermal transformation diagrams.

Doug

[DaveL]

I think, overall, you will be happier with 440C. Great steel and now very reasonable.

[Longshot]

The two steels that you mentioned would both be good starting points. The size of the blade that you are thinking about, is a pretty good size to start with. It gives you some space to practice, and if you make a mistake, you can usually fix it pretty easily. If you want to learn a bit more about the heat treating process, I would recommend Metallurgy of Steel for Bladesmiths & Others who Heat Treat and Forge Steel - By John D. Verhoeven (2005). I have found it to be full of the information that you would be looking for. Just keep tryin and Im sure that you will have fun with this!