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  #1  
Old 05-11-2004, 02:19 PM
mwinans mwinans is offline
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looking for a manufacturer

I currently hold a patent on a knife making system that will enable the "wanabe but don't think their able to" knife maker into the world of custom knife making. I firmly believe in this system since I was in that exact position a year ago. I have now completed two knives and am well on the my way to finishing number 3 and 4 using this very system developing it as I went. Each knife getting better. My problem is getting the attention of a manufacturer. So I thought I would turn to my friends here at CKD that have been so helpful in developing my knife making skills. Any ideas? Does anyone have first hand knowledge of a manufacturer that may be interested in such a product? Can anyone point me in the right direction and/or send this on to someone in the manufacturing business. As always your thoughts, comments and tips are welcome and much appreciated.

Mark
mwinans@gci.net
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2004, 02:29 PM
dpruehs dpruehs is offline
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What is processes are required to make this thing? I work with fabricators and casting foundries everyday, but I need to know a little more to refer you to the right people.
:confused:

Give me some more to go on, and I will try to help you out.

Thanks,
Dan Pruehs
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2004, 05:26 PM
Bob Warner's Avatar
Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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You say you "hold the patent" but what exactly do you mean?

Has the patent been granted?

I did a patent search for patents granted to your listed location Iliamna, AK and there are no patents issued to anyone there.

Please share the patent number, we can then see the product and then those that have connections can take the patent to the manufacturer for possible manufacturing or licensing.

If you have a preliminary patent application filed, this protects your rights and you can still share the details without worrying about infringement.

Not trying to challenge you in any way but I noticed you have made two knives with this system and you started a year ago. My three patents all took over three years each to be granted so I just have trouble putting the pieces together in my mind.

The reason I checked the USPTO is because that is where I look to find everything. Need to learn how to make something? Look up the patent for the original.

Anyway, a little more info would help everyone.


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  #4  
Old 05-11-2004, 08:37 PM
mwinans mwinans is offline
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Thanks for the responses. Bob you are on the money. I should have been more specific. I have a preliminary patent filed and the full patent has not been issued. The preliminary patent application was done a year ago and I have continued to develope "The Knife Jig" since. Of course the final patent will not be issued until I smooth all the details out with a manufacturer. Hope that clears things up a bit. As for the details of my product, I am working with a company called Invent-Tech so the best thing I can do is send you to their web site. You can then sign a Non-Disclosure/Non-Compete Agreement then you will be able to access my site and get all the information on "The Knife Jig" Thanks again for your interest and I would be most appreciative if you went through this small hassle. Like I said earlier I believe there is a niche in the market for a product like this and it will provide a good starting point for someone interested in exploring the possabilities of joining the handmade knife world as a maker.

Thanks Again
Mark
http://invent-tech.com
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2004, 09:46 PM
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Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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Check your dates.

A preliminary patent application is only good for a year. You MUST file the complete patent application before the preliminary expires. Do not let Invent-tech let the date pass or you will be out of luck.

I am not knowledgeable about Invent-tech but they should be advising you of everything and not just telling you that they will handle things.

The preliminary patent application secures your position as the inventor but is not a patent application. You are just notifying the patent office of your invention and securing that you are the inventor. It also voids any possibility of foreign patent rights, I hope they advised you of that.

How much have you spent with them? Aren't they supposed to help you find a manufacturer or a company to ####### to? There are a lot of scam companies out there, I hope this is not one of them. If they are legit, I would be interested in learning more about them because I have a whole notebook full of inventions, just no cash to pursue.

I will check out their history and see how they stack up.

Good Luck.


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  #6  
Old 05-11-2004, 10:14 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Is this the same place they're speaking of at this website???

http://www.inventored.org/caution/invent-tech/

If so, then, OUCH!

here's another rather scathing article about Invent-tech:

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansas...8581373.htm?1c

Last edited by fitzo; 05-12-2004 at 12:40 AM.
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2004, 01:46 AM
mwinans mwinans is offline
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Well guys. I can tell what I've experienced with Invent-Tech. They have done quite a bit of work for me. They put together a video and have a website where interested parties can visit and take a look at my invention complete with biography and CAD drawing. They frequently contact me to make sure I am receiving paperwork that is to be sent out or the next show where they will be representing my product. I have spent $4,000 but until now there has been nothing to make me doubt their professionalism or that they may be a scam business. Thats been my experience. Anyone let me know if you find anything more out.

Mark
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  #8  
Old 05-12-2004, 09:59 AM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Mark,

I had a case of conscience last night after I posted those less-than-glowing web statements. I felt bad to have dumped that negativity on the thread, but my initial concern was more for protection of you and any others interested in them.

There are always complaints with an outfit like this; they deal with so very many different people. This is a ripe area for a scam, and recent events have sensitized me. I am seeing "spooks" where there may not be.

I sincerely hope your invention is one of those that work out marvelously with an "invention company", and that you come through this with nothing but glowing praise for your experience.

Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 05-12-2004, 10:22 AM
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Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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I think adding the negative side of things is good. How else would one know to be wary? You should be suspicious of ANY company that wants a large sum up front.

Something EVERY person dealing with patents needs to know is that there is a line on the patent application called ASSIGNEE. The assignee is the one with all the rights. Make sure the line is blank. If the company puts their name there and you sign it, you just gave them ALL rights to your invention and they can exclude you from making the item. If the line is blank, the inventor has all rights.

If the company has offered to lower their commission in exchange for a larger up front fee, you are dealing with a questionable company.

You aparently are looking for a manufacturer and not to ####### the invention, is this correct?

In knifemaking, sometimes the customer knows as much about knives as the knifemaker and they benefit from that knowledge by ensuring they are getting what they pay for. The invention business is the same way. A lot of people go to these companies because they don't know how to do things. This is a mistake, you should know the steps and the things NOT to do. You should know the costs of every document filed with the USPTO and the timelines involved. This way although you hired them to HELP, you still control what is happening because you are educated. It is hard to seal from an educated person.

There are two books out that I highly recommend to get the knowledge you need to protect yourself.

The Inventor's Desktop Companion by Richard Levy
Patent it Yourself by Patent Attourney David Pressman

This is a buyer beware business so know what you are doing. Investigate, ask questions, investigate more and challenge anything suspicious.

Contact them and ask them about this bad report about them. See if they explain it or avoid it. Ask them directly if they have ever sued their clients. Ask how many of the clients have actually patented and marketed their ideas. Ask for examples of successful patents and get the patent number. Look the patent number up on the USPTO site and get the address of the inventor and write him a letter asking if he was represented by this company and how satisfied he was with them. IF you get bad feedback, demand you money back and get out of there.


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  #10  
Old 05-12-2004, 11:27 AM
mwinans mwinans is offline
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Mike I'm with Bob. I appreciate the negative feedback, of course done in the right spirit. One thing I have noticed here at CKD especially when posting photos of knives everyone is so quick to point out the good aspects of the work but only a few times have I seen actual negative comments. Bob, yes I have been looking for a maufacturer since I am not in the position to manufacture it myself but I have been wondering if I might be able to do that myself. Has anyone been able to access my product on Invent-techs site? Had one guy try but said he had to wait for more info or something. Also thanks for the tips on educating myself. I would have to say I am guilty of going in ignorant. The way it happened is that I was working on this product for my own use with no thought of patent etc. I had seen commercials for inventech for awhile and just got started wondering if this was something other people may be interested in. I contacted Inventech and they accepted my idea. I am definately going to start asking more questions. Like I said earlier Inventtech has not given me any reason to doubt them but then again I don't have a manufactured product yet.

Mark
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  #11  
Old 05-12-2004, 12:35 PM
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Jamey Saunders Jamey Saunders is offline
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I see in you a great desire to manufacture the product and bring it to market, and while commendable, your focus may be a little off for where you're at at this point in time. I think what the others are trying to tell you, and I have to agree, is that you don't need to worry at all about manufacturing anything until you have that patent in your hot little hands. I have also heard horror stories about these patent companies stealing inventions by use of the "Assignee" clause.

While it sounds like you've got a great idea, you need to be extra vigilant to make sure that it stays yours and becomes yours permanently. Don't get ahead of yourself. Do some research on the patent process, and if you don't think InventTech is moving at a fast enough speed (and there is a time consideration) dump them like a hot billet and hire a patent attorney.

What I'm saying is, watch out for yourself first.


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  #12  
Old 05-12-2004, 04:39 PM
mwinans mwinans is offline
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Ok correct me if I'm wrong. This is how I understand it to work. I have a preliminary patent application, is this the same as a Disclosure Document?, that protects me till I file for a full patent. When the idea is fully developed then its time to apply for the full patent. The guys at Invent-tech told me manufacturers may want changes on what I have in mind. Things that may be changed are materials, color, size etc. If such things are changed after a patent is issued then you will have to apply all over again costing more money. Perhaps it is worth spending the money to insure my ownership.

Thanks again guys I'll keep you informed on Invent-techs response when I call them.

Mark
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  #13  
Old 05-12-2004, 05:08 PM
Hot&CoaledForge Hot&CoaledForge is offline
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Mark,

This is not a rap against Invent-Tech (AKA Invention Technologies), but I wouldn't rely on their advice regarding patents. As Invent-Tech stated in a response to a complaint filed with the USPTO: "Invention-Technologies, Inc. is a marketing and development company which does not offer patents as a service in their contracts. Therefore, if Ms. Wilson wanted a patent during the past 3 years, she could have retained a patent attorney or filed one herself."

Above found at: http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com...n_response.htm


If you haven't done so already, you might do a search on Google (www.google.com). Put "Invention Technologies", with the quotes, in the search box and you'll get many many results.

Jim
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  #14  
Old 05-12-2004, 05:16 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
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Just be very, very careful, Mark. This is one of those areas of business rife with abuse.
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  #15  
Old 05-12-2004, 07:14 PM
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Bob Warner Bob Warner is offline
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What type of patent are you attempting to get?

Most likely you are wanting a utility patent. A utility patent protects the utility or "What it does."

A design patent, which you probably do not want, protects the design only. Have you ever heard that if you get a patent, all someone has to do is to change one thing and they can make the product? That is true with design patents. A design is exactly that, a detailed description of the design, how big, what color, etc.... When you submit a design and say the paint is red, I can paint one blue and it no longer is exactly like your desin so I can make them all day long.

The utility patent cannot be danced around like that. You have to make "Claims." Claims are what you "Claim" the invention will do. You want to be as general as possible so your description covers a wide area such as "Used for combing hair." The USPTO will try to make you narrow it down to say, "Used to comb human hair."

Once you get your claims down and the patent is issued, nobody can do anything that infringes on your CLAIMS.

I think you should buy the bools recommended above and do some quick reading, then start asking a LOT of questions.


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