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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2016, 04:25 PM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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New guy and first efforts

Hey all!

So I am just another new guy and thought I would introduce myself here and show you all my first knives (four total to date). I have basically been going at it alone with the internet to guide me. Finding forums such as this and the people in them have been very helpful! I basically started with an old hacksaw, some files I traded a kind fellow some nice pieces of wood for, emery cloth, and a little 1x42" belt grinder I put together with a simple frame and wheels from Lee Valley tools and a 1/2hp motor I picked up on sale.

While far from perfect, I am quite pleased with my progression and am learning heaps with every try. I can definitely see an improvement each and every time. Below are my first efforts...

This is my very first try. The pattern was kindly sent to me by the same fellow who traded me for the files (thanks Paul Mason of England!), although I made some many mistakes grinding it doesn't even remotely resemble what it was supposed to look like. The steel is a mystery and was just taken from a scrap bin from my buddies shop. The scales are bloodwood and the pins are stainless steel. I didn't bother to temper this blade as I don't even know what the steel is and really this was more about learning how to grind a bit...




My second knife is made from 1/8th" 1095 carbon steel. I got the pattern from a fellows blog up here in Canada ( http://dcknives.blogspot.ca ). Super nice guy and has been very helpful! Again, still making grinding mistakes and trying to fix them so it doesn't really look much like the original but that is okay by me. I am forcing myself to finish each and every knife no matter the mistake so I can learn more. The scales are cocobolo and I used brass pins. I also used an orange g10 spacer to give a bit of a colour pop. I also did my first heat treat and temper on this blade using a big old weed torch on propane. heated the steel up to non-magnetic and kept it there for 10 minutes before quenching in canola oil warmed up to 130f. Then I tempered in the oven at 450f for two hours, let it cool and repeated again at the same temp and time.




The third is a hunter I also used D. Comeau's blog patterns on. This knife I used 3/16th" 1084 carbon steel on. The scales are orange osage with grey and purple g10 sandwiched together for a spacer. Had some issues with my epoxy (learned not to use cheapie 5 minute junk with this trial!) so the spacers etc are a bit hinky looking up close, but this blade was by far my best grind. I also used brass pins. Heat treat and temper as the above knife.





My fourth and final knife to date is my first effort at designing and drawing my own knife. It is built to be a bird and trout knife. I tried to stick traditional in style and function, so I made it fairly small with an overall length under 7 inches and the blade is only 2-7/8th" from tip to plunge line. This knife is also made from 1/8th" 1095 carbon steel. The scales are some figured walnut I stabilized myself in a product called Pentacryl. I also used a darker orange spacer and stainless pins. The heat treat and temper was again done the same way. I wish I was a better photographer as I couldn't get the grain pattern to stand out, so you will just have to trust me that it looks pretty sweet!



Anyways, sorry for the storybook of a first post! You are all pretty much caught up on my brief foray into knife making and hopefully I can get a bit of feedback on these ones, and any more moving forward. Please do not be shy whether good or bad. I have a thick skin and really want to improve so I need to hear it all!

Thanks for looking!

Bob
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2016, 04:50 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Your work is definitely showing progress and that fourth one is really starting to look like a knife.

Unfortunately, looking like a knife may be all it does. That heat treat process you described sounds like it should completely, totally, and entirely overheat the steel before the quench. And 1095 is not a steel that appreciates that type of thing.

So, some advice (that's part of why you're here, I believe). First, go to the top of this forum and read the Sticky thread called Before you Heat Treat your First Knife. Second, get some 1084 (see the Sticky thread for sources).

There may be - and probably are - several other important points where your heat treat process can be improved but this is, by far, the most important one: heat the steel to just non-magnetic, place it back in the heat for maybe as much as 15 seconds and quench immediately. It is extremely important that you do not let the blade go more than about 100 degrees past non-mag. If it does go past, you can't just cool back down to it, you need to start over. This advice is based on my assumption that you are using a forge, the process would be slightly different if you have an electric furnace.

Finally, forget about pretty for now. Test your blades, test them very hard, break them. Until you do this you won't know if you have a knife or just something that looks like one ...


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 01-10-2016 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:56 PM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Your work is definitely showing progress and that fourth one is really starting to look like a knife.

Unfortunately, looking like a knife may be all it does. That heat treat process you described sounds like it should completely, totally, and entirely overheat the steel before the quench. And 1095 is not a steel that appreciates that type of thing.

So, some advice (that's part of why you're here, I believe). First, go to the top of this forum and read the Sticky thread called Before you Heat Treat your First Knife. Second, get some 1084 (see the Sticky thread for sources).

There may be - and probably are - several other important points where your heat treat process can be improved but this is, by far, the most important one: heat the steel to just non-magnetic, place it back in the heat for maybe as much as 15 seconds and quench immediately. It is extremely important that you do not let the blade go more than about 100 degrees past non-mag. If it does go past, you can't just cool back down to it, you need to start over. This advice is based on my assumption that you are using a forge, the process would be slightly different if you have an electric furnace.

Finally, forget about pretty for now. Test your blades, test them very hard, break them. Until you do this you won't know if you have a knife or just something that looks like one ...
Thanks Ray! I do not have a forge and basically just heated it using a big weed torch like the one below. I know it is about as mickey mouse as one can get, but it was what I had and I am one of those dummies that like to try everything for myself, but that said, I do heed good advice! So far on this last one, I think I might have been somewhat lucky. It has been 6 days since finishing it and I have been using it constantly in the kitchen for veg prep, and I took a piece of finished hardwood flooring just for fun and spent 20 minutes chopping at it as well as whittling it down and the edge still sharp as heck and no knicks, folds or anything negative. Still taking off arm hair and easily slicing paper. Not the craziest of testing, but for a learning blade I think it could have been a whole lot worse. That said, I am sure it could have been even been a whole lot better if done properly! If I was to ever make a blade for a friend or the like, I definitely would be sending it out for heat treat, at least until I could justify the money on a proper oven system...



In regards to the time I left the blade in the heat after non-magnetic, I constantly am seeing online people saying to let it soak for a period of time, as well as people saying to just hit the temp and quench. Is there a specific reason some go one way over the other? If it is soaked too long, what is the negative effect? Is it essentially making the edge more brittle?
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:03 PM
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ricky_arthur ricky_arthur is offline
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Quote:
In regards to the time I left the blade in the heat after non-magnetic, I constantly am seeing online people saying to let it soak for a period of time, as well as people saying to just hit the temp and quench. Is there a specific reason some go one way over the other? If it is soaked too long, what is the negative effect? Is it essentially making the edge more brittle?
The difference is in the type of steel and even the method of heat treat. Simple carbon steels do not need much soak time, some stainless steels need significant soak times. Make sure the advice you follow is specific to both your steel and your method. If you had a heat treat oven then a few minute soak at a SPECIFIC temp may be called for. If you are ball parking things with a torch then it is nearly impossible to Hold even a temp range. your 108X steel is more forgiving than your 1095. But either steel is sub par if over heated too much for too long. Like Ray said, read the stickies, but more important use the information for YOUR steel and YOUR heat treat method. One way to tell how bad is was would be to break the first 1095 blade you made and look at the grain as compared to the grain of say a file or similar properly heat treated steel.
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Old 01-11-2016, 03:53 PM
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Ricky has it right. I was referring to the fact that the temp will not remain steady in a gas forge for the next 10 minutes. That steel will simply get hotter and hotter and there is no way in hell that can be a good thing. So, hit non-mag on the way up, refresh the temp for a few seconds, and quench ...


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Old 01-11-2016, 06:15 PM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Ricky has it right. I was referring to the fact that the temp will not remain steady in a gas forge for the next 10 minutes. That steel will simply get hotter and hotter and there is no way in hell that can be a good thing. So, hit non-mag on the way up, refresh the temp for a few seconds, and quench ...
Excellent! That will be what I try on my next knife. Is it the safe to assume it will be the same for 1084 as well then?
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:08 PM
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The process will be the same if you use the same equipment....


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Old 01-11-2016, 08:16 PM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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The process will be the same if you use the same equipment....
Building some form of forge is high on my list of to do projects. Just trying to figure out what will be best for me in something low(er) buck but still be effective. I am leaning to trying my hand at a paint can forge soon. It will be a while before I can pop for a proper oven so I think a can forge will keep me going further down the road.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:37 PM
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Well, if you want a cheap forge I have a DVD for building some. You can get the DVD directly from me, or from Amazon, or off eBay...whatever works for you. Its called Forge Building for New Knifemakers (catchy, huh?) on eBay and Knife Making for Noobs on Amazon ....


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Old 01-11-2016, 08:38 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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I really like that forth knife. That is a nice design, simple, clean, sleek. I bet it works great as a small kitchen knife. Pretty wood too!


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Old 01-12-2016, 12:23 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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You show some good skill at grinding. The third and the fourth ones look good. By the way, the wood on the third one is Osage Orange not orange osage (if you ever saw the tree in fruit you'd understand). It's one of my favorite woods. It can be stabilized but they make fence posts out of it that last forever in the ground so I don't see the point. Also, it will not stay that yellow for you, unless you got the Argentinian variety. The North American variety will turn to a russet brown and I'm not sure that the South American stuff won't to some degree either.

Doug


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Old 01-13-2016, 10:43 AM
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nice work............keep going


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Old 01-13-2016, 12:24 PM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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Thanks gents!

I am on a bit of a break this week and next as the wife just had major surgery and I am taking care of here. If I can sneak out to the shop a bit I will start another, otherwise it will be practicing my design and drawing for a little bit...
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Old 01-14-2016, 04:41 AM
Ed of all trade Ed of all trade is offline
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Keep working at it, you will get it. Prayers sent for your wife and you. Ed
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Old 01-14-2016, 10:13 AM
bobbybirds bobbybirds is offline
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Keep working at it, you will get it. Prayers sent for your wife and you. Ed
Much appreciated Ed... Thanks!

My wife is home now but will be mostly bed ridden for a couple weeks and on very light duty for 6 weeks. She is a tough girl too and is not used to sitting still. Definitely will be a test of her patience!

I can't lie boys... I thank my lucky stars I was born male and do not have to deal with all the issues our ladies have to deal with!
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