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The S.R. "Steve" Johnson Forum Specialized knife making tips, technique and training for "ultra precision" design work enthusiasts.

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2003, 09:29 AM
Jared P Jared P is offline
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Plunge Cuts

Hi Mr. Johnson,

I am what you might call an EXTREME newbie, just got my belt sander set up and ground my FIRST piece of steel(crappy piece of angle iron, I was desperate!) a couple of days ago. Anyway, I LOVE the look of your knives and am very curious to see if you could help me by explaining, if possible, how you get such clean, nice plunge cuts. My first attempt, in a word, SUCKED!

Do you have a method that I could try?

Thanks for the help,
Jared
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2003, 10:04 AM
srjknives srjknives is offline
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Happy to help, but am not exactly sure what you are asking. I first of all mark the centerlines for the edge alond ghe edge of the blade. Next, I grind a sharp bevel to that line, with the edge up. This leaves a grind line along the edge of about 1/4" to 3/8" wide, more or less. Then grind the remaining portion of the grind, up to, if necessary, a limiting line scribed onto the side of the blade. With a hunter, I just grind about to the top of the blade, but with a fighter, where the center line has to be near the middle of the blade, I scribe a line to show me where to stop, when grinding from the bottom and the top. It helps to paint the blade with Dykem Steel Blue to give you a nice bright line.

Let me know if this helps, if not, we'll try again. Welcome to the forum! We have a million knifemakers and one of them is bound to be in your area. Find one, give him a call and he'd be glad to show you a few things, most likely. If not, try another one. Where do you live?
Check out the Newbie area: TONS of good informaiton. http://ckdforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13921
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2003, 11:12 AM
Jared P Jared P is offline
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Thanks that does help, however that's not exactly what I was asking, I'll try and clarify. I was curious as to how you get the plunge cut at the ricasso-blade junction so clean and crisp looking. That was my main question, sorry I wasn't very clear.

As for your quesiton, I live in North Texas and have been offered help from Gene O. and Bob W. and will definitely be taking them up on the generous offer.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

Jared
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2003, 01:32 PM
srjknives srjknives is offline
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You need to use a sharp belt to form that cut, using it to kind of "carve' away the steel gradually. You need to pay attention and concentrate on what you want to do and what the belt is doing. You also need to keep the angle of the blade the same each time you work in that area, otherwise the line will either face fwd., which can be desireable if you like the looks, or perpendicular. You need to control the edge of the belt, however, or it will make a square cut at the top ofthe grind. It helps a lot to "slightly" break the edge of the belt around the edge of the wheel with a scra piece of material, be it micarta, brass, N.S. or steel. But don't overdo it, or it'll become too "mushy" and you'll not get a sharp cut at all. Pay attention, also, to making the cuts symmetrical, both in shape and where they start on the edge ahead of the guard. You can either try for a sharp cut or a gradual more ofa curve, either is fine, it's a matter of taste. A good belt is the key, probably, plus a hard wheel, about 90- durometer. Mine's serrated with a ratio of about two to one. Grooves are about 1/2-3/8" wide and lands are 1/4" wide.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2003, 02:54 PM
Jared P Jared P is offline
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Thank you sir, that's very helpful...now I just need to practice! (and practice and practice and practice.....). One last question, if I may. You said to break then edge slightly, would that mean that you in fact have the belt tracking slightly over to the side of the wheel? I would assume so, just want to make sure.


Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.

Jared
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2003, 05:46 PM
srjknives srjknives is offline
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Exactly, just run it over the edge about 1/4" or so. Be gentle, don't want to strip the abrasive off or, as I mentioned earlier, make it mushy. Some guys slightly round the corner of the wheel, also, but I just let that happen in time, it may help a new maker, however.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2003, 09:05 PM
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Dave Larsen Dave Larsen is offline
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One thing that helps me immensely is my "cheater." It's two pieces of 3/4" angle iron about 3 inches long with two bolts going through the face of one piece and into the opposing face of the other. Then I just clamp it over the ricasso and the angle faces help me to align the plunge cuts. I use this for the 60 and sometimes 220 grit belts and remove it to round out the plunges like Steve described.


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  #8  
Old 12-06-2003, 10:22 PM
srjknives srjknives is offline
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If you can take two pieces of even hardened steel, drill two holes, just wider than your typical blade would be, can have a narrower and a wider set, thread one side, (prior to hardening, of course), put screws through them and clamp it to the blade it makes a great "stop" for your grinding wheel. Just like Dave recommends, 'cept mine are hardened 440-C. I don't use them except for bowies, but just recently was thinking of digging them out to try on any knife I'm grinding. Getting old, need help! Mayday!!!

Last edited by Steve; 02-12-2004 at 12:34 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2003, 10:52 PM
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SteveS SteveS is offline
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Just what I do. Don't recommend it, necessarily.

Do your bevel making but stay about 1/4" away from where you want the plunge cut. Finish all the bevels and stuff upto 120 or 200 grit.

Mark the edge where you want the plunge: pen, scribe, tape, something.

Now put the work rest on and a 120 belt. put the blade in both hands, holding tang and tip, edge up. Place the blade, both hands on the rest and move the blade into the belt, angle so the edge hits first. Right where you want the final plunge. Putting your nose close enough to grind off warts helps too.

Now light touch and sloooowly roll the blade to match the existing bevel, but stop just short and check. Hit it again. slowly, slowly

Dang! I said slowly - now get a new piece of steel that one is toast! You should really listen better!

OK here we go again. Now right about when you have the bevels almost matched, between your existing one and the new one, it's time to remove the rest, put on the 220 belt and go back to work.

Start AWAY from the plunge and smooth into the plunge. Get it all blended in real nice.

Now you can go screw up the heat treat.

Steve

edit to add warning:

Your work rest MUST have close fitting U notch where the belt goes. The spine of the blade has to rest on both sides. If the blade gets caught between the belt and rest it might mean a call to 911.

I made one by bolting a steel plate to my work rest and then pushing it into the belt. Nice tight fit.



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Last edited by SteveS; 12-06-2003 at 10:57 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-07-2003, 09:26 AM
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tmickley tmickley is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by SteveS
...
Dang! I said slowly - now get a new piece of steel that one is toast! You should really listen better!

OK here we go again. ....

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  #11  
Old 12-08-2003, 08:29 AM
Jared P Jared P is offline
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SteveS you sound as if you've been in my garage with me!

Thanks for all the help gentlemen now all I have to do is practice for the next 20 years and I'll be ready!



Jared
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  #12  
Old 12-08-2003, 10:54 PM
blademan blademan is offline
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Jared:
I noticed you are in Texas, If you live close to Ft.Worth let me
Know, I would be Happy to show you how to Start. It's not as
hard as you think when someone shows the first time.

James


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  #13  
Old 01-23-2004, 02:34 PM
jboynton jboynton is offline
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Plunge cuts--Blll platen ?

Has anyone been using the B-lll w/ platen for plunge cuts? I'd appreciate suggestions & comments. Thanks, Jay
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  #14  
Old 02-11-2004, 09:08 PM
paul harm paul harm is offline
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i like to wrap 1/4 " masking tape 2 or 3 times around the blade at the angle i want to show where to stop. it seems to work for me instead of clamping steel to the blade. do it the way steve said except i don't use a rest. do it freehand with the hands and fore arms against my belly. slow the belt down and really concentrate. then at times do a lot of swearing. paul
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2004, 03:35 AM
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Dave Larsen Dave Larsen is offline
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I'm enjoying this long-lived thread.

I often tape the ricasso before putting on the "cheater." This helps me feel better that I won't get any grit under there and helps prevent rust forming from dipping.

But nothing is perfect. One day I'll grow brave enough to grind em in freehand!

Or not...

Dave
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