MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-26-2013, 05:29 PM
Nohone Nohone is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
Hand filing: Equipment?

Hi,

So I don't care to buy a grinder or belt sander because I don't have the funds. I also like the traditional ways of doing things, so I'd like to know what file equipment I need to...

Sharpen the blade
Bevel the blade
And to give the blade a satin finish

I don't typically do mirror finishes. My experience with knife smithing is with a high powered grinder and belt sander, but that's when I used to go to a shop near me they'd let me use their tools.

I forge my blades and I don't have a vise, unfortunately. I am going to try to file without a vise, but if it's just way too hard then I'll end up getting one.

So if you can direct me to a website or shop or brand that sells files for knife making that would be excellent.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-26-2013, 08:52 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Get the largest bastard cut mill file that you can find, preferably single cut. This will do the heavy removal. Also get a smooth cut mill file to take the scratches out that the bastard cut file has left. An assortment of half round, round, and needle files are good to have too. Polishing can be done with EDM stones and/or sand paper. The best place for sand paper is an auto supply store. They carry sand paper meant to sand metal not wood. You can get a good selection of files from MSC direct.

In place of a vice you can cut a board with a pointed end and clamp the blade to it with C clamps. Use the same clamps to attach the whole thing to a solid work surface. One of the purposes of the pointed board is to protect your hand from the edge and the point of the blade.

If you are a smith then you will be using your hammer and anvil to rough the blade and set up the bevels. The files and sandpaper will only refine the surface.

You can use sand paper to or Scot-Brite pads to apply a satin finish.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-27-2013, 12:04 PM
Nohone Nohone is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
Thank you for info that was really helpful.

So this may seem obvious but I'd like to clarify anyway. I am gonna be doing all the filing while the blade is hot right? Like cherry red?

And the polishing by stone or sandpaper is done cold I'd imagine.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-27-2013, 12:57 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
No, the filing is not done while the steel is hot. It would be very dangerous to you and would ruin the files in short order. The only hot work that you will do will be with a hammer on an anvil. I would recommend that you do a little reading first if you want to get into bladesmithing. My favorite is The Master Bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-27-2013, 11:00 PM
Nohone Nohone is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
I have used a rasp to soften the edges of some other work while it was still red hot. I confused the rasp with a file.

I have checked out your recommended book on a PDF, I like that book, but Jim doesn't go into hand filing. Do you know of any books or essays on traditional finishing techniques of blades?

Or, even better, on the traditional methods of bladesmithing in general?

Last edited by Nohone; 05-27-2013 at 11:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-28-2013, 01:12 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,612
Filing while the steel is red hot will over temper the files. I take it you mean to file the flats with a file, not just round some edges and that will put the file in more contact with the hot steel. I think that you would be hard pressed to fine a book on bladesmithing that deals with hand filing. Actually, the technique of draw filing works pretty much as a grinder does and you should be able to to apply the same principles except for hallow grinding. If you don't know how to draw file you should be able to google it up but basically it's pushing or pulling, depending on the direction of the teeth, at right angles to the file.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-28-2013, 11:13 AM
Nohone Nohone is offline
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
That must have been what I used the rasp for. It was at the direction of my old teacher.

I was filing yesterday after I had bought the bastard cut mill file by your suggestion. By your description it seems that I was draw filing, as that just seemed the most intuitive way to sharp the makeshift blade that I had forged. I liked filing better, except for that screeching sound it makes sometimes when the file scratches the steel. I was doing it all by hand and I experienced no physical discomfort, I suppose when I begin to tire, then I will go about getting a vice or a C clamp like you have mentioned.

I'll keep looking for more information on the subject of traditional bladesmithing. Thank you very much for your help Doug.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-30-2013, 07:23 AM
Crex's Avatar
Crex Crex is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Acworth, GA and/or Hanging Dog, NC
Posts: 3,583
Need to fill out your profile Nohone. From all you have posted so far, it appears that you need to get with an experienced knifemaker and get some things figured out before you ruin your tools. You are most likely close to one and the little effort it takes to meet up is worth it. I think some of it may be more a matter of comprehension of terms. We all come from different walks of life and terminology can sometimes get in the way of understanding.

Note: A screeching file is a notice that something is wrong. Either your file is dull or your steel is too hard. Drawfiling is simple technology that works very well if approached correctly. As Doug stated, if you are forging you should be setting your bevels, tapers and most of your profile with a hammer. Drawfiling is just a "truing up" of the forge work.
If you are not clamping your blade securely to do the filing, you most likely will not get even close to true flats. Don't care how strong you are (comfort/discomfort aside), the mechanical advantage of the file on steel is greater. Therefore you are inducing human error to your efforts.


__________________
Carl Rechsteiner, Bladesmith
Georgia Custom Knifemakers Guild, Charter Member
Knifemakers Guild, voting member
Registered Master Artist - GA Council for the Arts
C Rex Custom Knives

Blade Show Table 6-H
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anvil, auto, blade, blades, brand, edge, file, files, forge, hammer, hand, hot, knife, knife making, making, mirror, sand, satin finish, stone, store, supply, tools, vise, wood


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest creation and attempt at hand filing Cthulhu The Newbies Arena 11 10-23-2012 12:34 PM
Hand Made Hand Tools Gene Chapman Tool Time 2 02-14-2004 07:14 PM
HT after filing? EZ1 High-Performance Blades 3 05-28-2003 02:41 PM
Filing Jig DiamondG Knives The Outpost 28 01-28-2003 11:33 AM
filing an arc SVanderkolff Fit & Finish 9 12-05-2002 11:06 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:28 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved