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  #1  
Old 07-14-2016, 05:54 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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wood handles

Hey guys so i am wondering if anyone has any sugestions about finishing a wood handle all of the stuff i have done has been g10 micarta carbon fiber that sorta thing although i did just do one with layers of dyed wood but it seemed a lil different than now i am working on one that will have cocobolo scales as a handle. now with other materials i have always just gone up pritty high in the grits them buffed now i have read that with some wood i guess its good to oil it? so in that case do you still buff it or not? i would think if you grind it high and buff there wouldnt be much room for oil to soak in. any suggestions would be appreciated. if this one comes out ok i think i will start using wood more often
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Old 07-14-2016, 06:32 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Wood finishing is a HUGE subject. Each group of woods has different finishing requirements and there are many products and methods to meet these requirements. Proper wood finishing is a skill in and of itself and requires about as much study to learn as blade making, maybe more. Then, once you have your handle finished and looking good some jerk will actually use that knife and in a few years that finish will wear off. The nerve of some people!

Or, you can just take the easy way out like I do and use professionally stabilized wood. The result is wood that is as close to waterproof as most wood can get, resistant to most common household chemicals, beautiful to look at, does not shrink, split, or warp over time, and, best of all, it cannot wear off because it goes all the way through the wood. You can buy stabilized wood in blocks or scales or you can send whatever wood you have to K&G Finishing or to WSSI and have it professionally stabilized which generally can save some money.

Some people say stabilized wood looks like plastic but to me it looks like polished wood. So, instead of trying to keep a garage full of various wood finishing chemicals, rags, and brushes I sand to 400 grit and then buff to a glass like shine in a few minutes. You should at least give it a try ...


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Old 07-14-2016, 06:53 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Oh yeh i should have said that sorry.....no i am definitely talking about stabilized wood i have done enough reading to know that it is much more effort if its not or if you try and stabilize it your self...i actually got some cocobolo scales a ironwood block and one of those hybrid wood or shock wood maybe (the one where its got like a river of colored epoxy running through the middle) they are all stabilized... ok so yeh the one i am putting the cocobolo on ill try 400 grit then the buffer.... i am gong to do the front then glue that handle tomorow....maybe the oiling thing i saw was for wood that wasnt stabilized.....just like the finishes i have been tring i figure its good to know how to do a nice wood handle if i will be selling some of these so i can have a lil variety. i will post pics soon once i get the one with the wood done i got 4 done that i will try to sell (need to make sheath tho i am going to make all the sheaths at once ) got the cera coat and the gun for it today going to try that tomorow too if i have the time ill let ya know how it works out. thanks again ray
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Old 07-14-2016, 08:08 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Cocobolo is a tropical wood, and all woods of that type are usually not capable of being stabilized because they are too oily. That also means that there isn't much else you can do to finish them either. You could put an oil finish on it with Tung oil or some such but simply sanding it smooth and going over it with Ren Wax is about as much as you can/need to do to make it look good.

BTW, if you haven't already heard, wear long sleeves and a respirator when working with tropical woods and cocobolo is especially bad. Do not let it settle on your skin and its worse if you are sweating. Do not breathe the dust! Cocobolo dust is highly toxic and the effect is cumulative whether you breathe it or simply get it on your skin. Some people have an immediate allergic reaction to it, for others it may take 20 years of exposure. But, sooner or later if you play with it enough it will screw you up to one degree or another .....


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Old 07-14-2016, 08:29 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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I've had some good luck using boiled linseed oil, followed by TruOil. TruOil is BLO with some other "stuff" to make it fully dry with a gloss. BLO applied incorrectly or too thickly will never quite dry and get gummy. I typically hand rub about 5-6 coats of TruOil, allowing each to dry fully, usually a full day, between coats and then buffing off the shine with 0000 steel wool. Final coat is allowed to dry several days then the shine buffed off with 0000 SW and then the handle buffed with a soft cotton rag to put a satin finish on.
I've been using one knife daily for about 5 months in the kitchen with this finish and it seems to hold up well.
Obviously I'm relatively new at this so I don't have a multi-year track record. All I can say is what I've observed with my limited "testing".

I will add I don't abuse my knives, I use them for their intended purpose. Now if I used it outdoors, very vigorously, in camping and bushcraft, digging in the dirt, driving tent stakes, etc. how would it hold up? Dunno... I have an EDC that I use as needed, again not abused, that has this finish and again, it shows good promise thus far.
I have some guys with my knives I've given them to "use and abuse" and give me a report. So far no failures. If the finish becomes worn, it is a simple matter to sand with steel wool and reapply the finish.
Some woods respond better. Walnut is more porous and requires more coats to fill the grain. Patience is the key. Maple is fairly dense and accepts the oil well and finishes beautifully. But I only have one maple handle finished this way currently in use and it is on my daughter's knife. She hasn't used it enough to have any real feedback.

I have been doing some considerable research on this. Some guys who sell stabilized wood, offer some good information.
And with that, about cocobolo...
Cocobolo is generally not "stabilized" or oiled. It is a naturally oily wood and very stable in its natural state. It won't accept the epoxies, polymers, resins, or oils used in the stabilization process because of its natural oil content. Thus it makes a very good knife handle material. (It is used extensively in nice fly rod reel seats because of its stability as well) I have some cocobolo I intend to use on an upcoming prototype I want to build.
Again, I'm passing along info I've researched about the cocobolo. Also TAKE NOTE! Cocobolo produces toxic, very irritating dust. Never breath it, use a respirator, and it is suggested to shower to get the dust off your skin after sanding.

Also, my experience is limited so take it FWIW.

But some people don't like the look of stabilized wood. I'm one of them. Wood has been oiled and used for generations with good results without benefit of modern stabilization methods. Grandma's rolling pin, butcher knives, axe and hatchet handles, wooden spoons, heck bowls made of wood that last a hundred years or more without (modern)stabilization, gun stocks are another good example.

But I believe a knife used under harsh conditions would probably do well to have stabilized wood to be ideal...if you like the look, okay. Again I rely on research and real experience as Ray posted above. I respect the years of experience knife makers have with stabilized wood and certainly agree, as a component to a hard use knife, stabilized wood would be considered superior for the durability factor. That seems to be the consensus among knife makers with real experience, a group I am not a part of yet! So again, yield to experience when filtering information.

Personally I prefer natural wood, the look, the feel, the warmth, it just has "soul". Otherwise I'll just use some synthetic.

But that's me and I certainly am in no position as new as I am at this to try and steer anyone, so these are just my thoughts, perhaps born of ignorance. So don't hang your hat on any info I offer.


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Last edited by WNC Goater; 07-14-2016 at 08:36 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old 07-14-2016, 10:41 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
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It's going to depend on your woods. The Rosewood group, of which I believe Coco Bolo belongs to, does not need stabilization and may not even be able to accept it as Ray said. Desert Ironwood is another one that can be sanded fine and buffed and waxed. I put a African Blackwood handle on one of my kitchen knives sanded it out fine and buffed it and it ended up looking like a polished plastic handle it was so smooth. Lignum vitae doesn't need much of a finish other than sanding fine and probably wouldn't accept a thin coat of oil if you tried to apply it it has so much oil on it's own. People have stabilized Osage Orange but something that will survive as a fence post stuck in the ground for decades really doesn't need it.

If you are going to use something like Red Cedar, Madrone, or just about any burl you would probably do best to have them stabilized.

Doug


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Old 07-15-2016, 12:06 AM
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Wazukie Wazukie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
Cocobolo is a tropical wood, and all woods of that type are usually not capable of being stabilized because they are too oily. That also means that there isn't much else you can do to finish them either. You could put an oil finish on it with Tung oil or some such but simply sanding it smooth and going over it with Ren Wax is about as much as you can/need to do to make it look good.

BTW, if you haven't already heard, wear long sleeves and a respirator when working with tropical woods and cocobolo is especially bad. Do not let it settle on your skin and its worse if you are sweating. Do not breathe the dust! Cocobolo dust is highly toxic and the effect is cumulative whether you breathe it or simply get it on your skin. Some people have an immediate allergic reaction to it, for others it may take 20 years of exposure. But, sooner or later if you play with it enough it will screw you up to one degree or another .....
Boy, am I ever in trouble, lol. Been a woodworker most of my life. Oh well, going to die someday and someway anyway.


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Old 07-15-2016, 08:18 AM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Butch,

I know what you mean. I think it must be like smoking: some people can do it all their life and maybe suffer a bit after 50 years of it and maybe not but others will die from it before they hit 40.

I used cocobolo on occasion for about 10 years, then it started to irritate me. It got worse each time I tried after that so I dumped my stock of it. Some years later, I bought a 40 year old guitar off the internet. It was made of rosewood and the wood still had a fair bit of its natural oil in it, smelled really good when I opened the case . I enjoyed playing it that first day. On the second day my eyes were watering and my throat was starting to feel constricted. On the third day I had to put the guitar outside in my storage room until I could make arrangements to return it to the store I bought it from. When they store received it I called and asked them if the guy noticed anything unusual about how the guitar smelled, he said it smelled great. I wonder if it will still smell great to him in 10 years?

Cocobolo is very popular and a lot of makers use it. I've seen a few report that they have had reactions from it but most seem to get along with it just fine. I think its like peanuts in that regard, ok for most people but can really disagree with others....


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Last edited by Ray Rogers; 07-15-2016 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 07-15-2016, 08:41 AM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
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Ray et. al.
I've built a couple of sea kayaks and one pirogue and in doing the fiberglass and epoxy, the same warnings apply to epoxy. That being that while you can get it on yourself with no real ill effects, it has a cumulative effect. Continual exposure to the epoxy and eventually you can have a reaction. Of course by that time it's too late. I've taken that to heart and always wear nitrile gloves when working with epoxy. Same with most woods but particularly those in the Rosewood group like cocobolo, purpleheart, padauk...not sure what others. It is the oil in the wood that causes the problems. I've also heard mahagony and teak have some toxicity though I've not seen anyone use those on knives though I'm sure it's been done.

Not trying to direct people to other forums but this guy...
http://greenbergwoods.com/

...has some good info on wood stabilization contained in this thread:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/sh...al-of-70-woods


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Old 07-15-2016, 01:16 PM
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Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
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Wood is tricky stuff to learn. No two are exactly alike. Sanding against or with the grain cam be the difference between 'awesome' and 'what the hell happened?'

I use lots of stabilized wood, but I also use Ironwood, Cocobolo, Ebony, Zicote, and others that do not stabilize like most hardwoods. On those, I finish as desired for that knife. That is to say, maybe I hand finish and wax, or maybe I buff on the wheel with white compound.

Buffing can create 'raised grain' particularly in Ironwood, so be aware of that.

If you use an oily wood, be sure to create a very solid mechanical bond to the blade. Don't rely on epoxy and a peening job. I like Corby or Loveless fasteners for this task.

I was never irritated by woods making knives, but when I built my boat, the Mahogany tore me up good on one particularly sweaty night in the shop with a ton of dust. Thought I was gonna have to go to the ER! Contact dermatitis everywhere!


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Old 07-15-2016, 07:33 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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hey guys thanks for all the info!!!! it seems i have MUCH more reading to do on the topic i had no idea about it being that bad for you either i always wear a respirator but took the advice of wearing long pants and sleaves even tho it was crazy hot here today but i am happy i did man that stuff made a mess and it "hung" in the air for a while. oh and i did find out i was mistaken the cocobolo was NOT stabilized as you guys thought i had got a few pieces of wood in a order last week and the week before ( handle matterial is one thing i always grab a couple peices when i order other stuff i probilly have enough to do 50 knives but 90% of it is g10 and micarta stuff like that) the other pieces of wood i have is stabilized (ironwood blackash burl, dyed maple burl and one of those hybrid or shock wood blocks) so i thought the cocobolo was too...its not...yeh even only grinding what i needed to do pre glue made a mess but i tried just grinding to 600 then buffed and it came out pritty good ill finish it tomorow i am very curious now to see how one of the stabilized woods come out in comparison. i think for now i will stay with wood i can just grind and buff its easy its what i am used to doing anyway so until i cram some more knowledge on the subject into my head ill stick to that ......thanks again guys for all the advice!!!!
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:04 PM
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I have no doubt that the fine powder caused from sanding is and can be a respiratory irritant, I do wear a mask(most of the time. The exotics are no doubt the worst. But my love of exotic wood working keeps me going. Pine and fire just doesn't do it for me, lol. I think the worst product I've ever worked with is dymond wood, that stuff is just down right irritating.


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Old 07-16-2016, 08:25 AM
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That's interesting. I've used Dymonwood - which is just Birch with various dyes as I understand it - quite a few times and had no problem with it. Maybe the lesson we should take from all this is to wear protective clothing and a respirator when you grind on any wood as you could develop an allergy to any type of wood over time. Special care should be taken to keep the dust off your skin if you live where its hot enough for you to be sweating while you're making wood dust ...


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Old 07-16-2016, 09:18 AM
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I love the smell of Dymondwood!
It reminds me of the first knife I ever made and the excitement I felt making it.


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Old 07-16-2016, 12:42 PM
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Just grinded the rest of that cocobolo handle what a mess....i thought g10 was a mess this wood got everywhere and its still lingering in the air with garage door open i dont think i am going to even enter the garage with out a respirator today. I have never tried dymondwood. can never find it jantz has a note when you click on it saying the factory burnt down so the dont have it a few other sites have the link but none in stock i forget where i did see it somewhere but no pics but then again i havent specifically been looking for it. i did try this stuff that knifekits just started selling caled dymalux they say it is close to what dymondwood is the only thing when i used it i ended up with the pins being raised a lil but i also had that graphite stuff so even when it gets packed down its still slightly cushiony so idk if it was that or the material was very soft...probilly both. it did come out ok tho. also the cocobolo i grinded (pritty high i forget 600 or 800 i think) then put it on a buff wheel with green chrome on it and it came out pritty good overall i like it first real wood handle i have done besides that dymalux laminate wood stuff. on another note i sprayed 2 test blades with grey ceracoat yesterday one i followed instructions (acetone soak, "gassing out" in oven spray back in oven) and one blade i messed up a long time agao just wiped quickly with acetone and sprayed just to compare all the cleaning steps. the one i didnt clean that much scratched a bit easier but not as bad as i thought they told me it wouldnt stick at all really w/o the cleaning steps...but on both of them one side i sprayed way to much realized while i was spray so i did less on other but still a bit too much its going to take a lil playing with but i do think once i get the right spray it will be really good for a finish on a tactical knife.
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