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High-Performance Blades Sharing ideas for getting the most out of our steel.

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  #1  
Old 09-21-2005, 07:14 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
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CPM S30V for a Chef Knife

Hi. I have done a forum search on S30V, but feel I need to ask a couple of questions.
This is a new steel to me...I have only used carbon steels before.

I want to make a chef knife..the blade is going to be about 8 inches long (13 overall), and 2 inches at its widest...This is going to be stock removal, and I am thinking of making ot slim, so maybe 3 /32 stock, then convex to the final edge.

Researching steels, it seems that CPM S30V would be a good choice......any one have any opinions or advice?

One concern I have is the blade being one hardness ....Will it have any flex at all before it snaps?...I am thinking that it may be used for filleting purposes as well.

Is it possible to draw temper some of the hardness out of the spine to make it softer/flexible?

I understand that its difficult to polish, but thats not a problem as I prefer a satin finish. Can I put a satin finish on easy enough with a sisal wheel?

I will be doing my own ht in an evenheat oven following CPM guidlines......It mentions air cooling to harden. Am I likely to get warpage or do I need plates?.....They also mention the possibility of an interrupted oil quench to 1000 then air cool (think I got that right?)....so , anyone have any advice about heat treating this steel?

What Rc do you think I should aim for?..I dont want it too difficult to sharpen.

Lots of questions...

Thanks in advance.

Kevin.


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  #2  
Old 09-22-2005, 05:31 AM
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mete mete is offline
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There are makers who have made chef's knives of S30V ,a fine steel for that....Flexibility is dependant on thickness not hardness....There is no advantage to tempering back the spine -again flexibility is thickness not hardness.It's not practical to temper the spine with this steel anyway....Follow the heat treating procedure carefully.Use heat treating foil .The most convenient quench is with plates ,leave the foil on and clamp the plates tightly.A hardness of 58-59 Rc is a good choice.
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  #3  
Old 09-22-2005, 07:23 AM
Coutel Coutel is offline
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Thanks....I will follow that advice.


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Old 09-22-2005, 10:22 PM
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McAhron McAhron is offline
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Why s30v?440 is much less expensive and available in more sizes.Its heat treat is easier and more forgiving.To get the most out of any of these air hardening steels you will need to do a cryogenic treatment.You can go to your local welding supply and get liquid nitrogen or get some dry ice and sandwich the blade between a couple pieces,some people add acetone for a cooler and more efficient freeze.I cant remember if you add the ice to the acetone or vise versa.I know it must be done properly or it can boil over/explode.Good luck to you and post a pic of the finished product for us to see.

PS you cant draw back stainless because it will air harden as it cools.


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Old 09-28-2005, 06:28 PM
nate d. nate d. is offline
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OK i've got and made my chef knife from S30V. Made it about three years ago. it doesn't get sharpened much. it is made from the thinnest stock that cricible offers. there is not flex to mine, but mines probably 2.5 inches wide. its a bid chopping knife that makes quick work of veggies for the pan!! I don't know if i'll make another one or not, as i like ATS 34 a lot and can get it in 1/16 in. thickness. that blade is 6 inches long and i almost taek it to the shop to resharpen but am patient most of the time and sharpen it with a diamond sharpener. Do not waste your time trying to sharpen S30V with a stone material, use diamond and save yourself the time, or do it on a machine. As far as HT goes, i austenitize (soak) at 1900 F for 30 min IN STAINLESS STEEL FOIL, don't do it without the foil (been ther done that, it ain't pretty). i quench in chill plates and get wonderful results this way. your right it doesn't and won't take a shine. about a 220- 320 tops. I have not had any issues with rusting and my wife is not the nicest person to a knife. any other questions about S30V and the kitchen just ask nedozier@utep.edu. Take Care
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  #6  
Old 09-29-2005, 08:38 AM
Coutel Coutel is offline
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Thanks guys. Been helpful.


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Old 02-12-2006, 09:42 AM
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Kevin

I would be very intrested with your results when you finish this. I have been asking myself the same question.

Although most folks I have made kitchen knives for, prefer a carbon steel blade due to its crisp edge, and being able to maintain it with a steel. But they also know how to properly care for a knife.

I am wanting to expand into the relm of stainless for those "Other Folks" who think it must be "Shiney" to be good. I have had several request for chefs from folks who I think fit into that catagory, and want to be able to provide a knife that is functional first, but "shiney" second. Just havn't figured out what would be the best steel for that.


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Mike


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Old 02-17-2006, 06:01 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiamondG Knives
Kevin

I would be very intrested with your results when you finish this. I have been asking myself the same question.

Although most folks I have made kitchen knives for, prefer a carbon steel blade due to its crisp edge, and being able to maintain it with a steel. But they also know how to properly care for a knife.

I am wanting to expand into the relm of stainless for those "Other Folks" who think it must be "Shiney" to be good. I have had several request for chefs from folks who I think fit into that catagory, and want to be able to provide a knife that is functional first, but "shiney" second. Just havn't figured out what would be the best steel for that.


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Mike
Hi Mike.

I havent made one in s30v yet, but I experimented with a couple of other stainless steels (440 and 154)...but I keep coming back to 52100...The stainless ones worked out fine, its just that I feel more comfortable with 52100 as I have tried and tested it so many times.........but I am going to have a go at laminating 52100 with a soft stainless one day....


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Old 02-17-2006, 06:58 PM
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Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
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Kevin,

I wish you the best of luck with the S30V. I'm hand rubbing a 9 inch chef's knife (2 1/2" wide) right now, and I have to say, everything that people have said about it's toughness after HT is true. For that reason, I'm not sure if I'm in love with the steel or not. My finishing time on this one has been so dramatically different that it's going to have to prove to be WAY better than 154CM or 440C for me to keep working with it.

But like Mike was saying, it's what my customer asked for, so that is what he gets.

Chris
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Old 02-17-2006, 11:00 PM
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McAhron McAhron is offline
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I for one am glad to hear you stuck with carbon steel.carbon rocks for kitchen knives


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  #11  
Old 12-22-2007, 09:02 AM
Lin Knives Lin Knives is offline
 
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Sandvik 13C26 works well. I've made a few from CPM S30V, but find that 13C26 is easier to sharpen. CPM S30V will get blunt eventually so it's percentage of large carbides isn't really important.

For a chef's knife, sharpness and corrosion resistance are the most important things. -Just my .02.
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Old 12-23-2007, 11:48 AM
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Gary Mulkey Gary Mulkey is offline
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Kevin,

Anymore there are so many choises of steels that the choise of which one to use is as varied as the opinions as to which one is best. However I feel that usually the best knife is made from the steel that you the maker are the most accomplished with, especially if you are doing your own H/T. Just because the knife is to be used in the kitchen doesn't mean that it should be from a different steel. I would recommend that you use your normal steel. Just my $.02.

Gary
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Coutel Coutel is offline
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Wow...I started this thread over 2 years ago .....I ended up making a selection of knives using 52100 and 1095 and gave them away as Christmas presents 2 years ago....

One of the knives was a gift to my parents. I went home to visit them overseas for the first time in 18 months just a couple of weeks ago...

The knife I gave them was being used on a weekly basis to cut meat for Cornish pasties (a Saturday tradition) and I was happy to see that my father was managing to keep it very sharp just by using a kitchen steel.
Steel condition was much better than I had expected with minimal patina.....

Carbon steel rules


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Old 02-07-2008, 09:50 PM
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AndradeArtWorks AndradeArtWorks is offline
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Greetings, As a new knife-maker and one who has worked in production kitchens I would say that S30V would only be a good choice if you were to grind it very thin.

And then it follows that what you end up with would be a knife that will be quite fragile in terms of longevity and possibly problematic in dropping accidents, and believe me, knives hit the floor now and again when used seriously, and picked up and put down hundreds of times a week.

So.........

Personaly I am not a fan of S30V for many reasons, mostly because it just is not all that fun to work with and certainly is a pain to sharpen.....unless ground very thin, and as for the type of profule and edge-geometry wou want in a chef knife, would not be practical.

I would say go with the counterpart being CPM154 if stainless is a must, and if it is not I would always have to vote for 52100 in the carbon category. It is by far my favorite steel for edge retention and if made properly into a chef knife can be wonderful. I have a Michael Rader Ssantoku that is just wicked sharp, and out performs everything I have compared it to...........all except for other 52100 blades. I have a piece I tested made by Rodrigo Sfreddo, and used it as a chef knife in a production kitchen every day and only had to sharpen it 3-times in one year!

There are many choices out there, and to me, many outshine S30V in all respects, especially if you are taking chef knives.

Thats my 2-cents

Don Carlos
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  #15  
Old 02-12-2010, 12:56 AM
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Funny how we keep coming back to this thread!

Ive found a supplier for 52100 sheet stock in 1/8 thickness if your intrested Kevin. I got this to try the stainless clad 52100 idea thats been in my head for years!

Kevin, last I had heard you had moved to Texas. You still there??

Drop me a note when you get a chance, would love to catch up.

God Bless
Mike


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