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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 12-29-2007, 09:03 AM
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Question on kiln

Hey Ed,
Maybe you will know an answer to my question. I got a skutt kiln and want to use it to run my salt pot (when I get all the parts). Can one of the PID units handle turning the sucker on and off to control temp? I still have to try and figure the whole thing out. It has this button and flip/lever kind of thing on the control side and I am not sure exactly what to do with it other than to push the button in to turn the kiln on. Any help is appreciated. Overall the kiln is about 18" deep and almost 2' in diameter. Skutt model 181 if any of that helps. Dan


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Old 12-29-2007, 02:03 PM
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If you can figure out the wiring on the unit, one of the PID controllers would work great. The PID controllers will only handle about 2 amps, so you would have to install a contact/relay. I did this on my quench tank.... its set up with two 110v hot water heater elements, wired into a contacter, which is then wired into the PID. It heats the oil to 135F, shuts off, and then back on when the oil gets below 130F. (I have a thermocouple in the oil thats wired to the PID to sense the temp).


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Old 12-29-2007, 06:14 PM
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contactor/relay?

Any idea where to get such a relay? Where did you get your thermocouple for the salts? I will try a search on ebay or something Dan


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Old 12-29-2007, 09:55 PM
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A Google search on the phrase "30 Amp Contactor" turns up several folk willing to sell one. Looks like $10.00 to $20.00 plus shipping for most of 'em.

I get mine from a surplus electronics dealer here in town.


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Old 12-30-2007, 01:20 AM
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contactor

If the kiln is a 220V do I need the single pole or the double pole? I am going to get the SS, the thermocouple and the contactor as soon as I sell a knife to actually pay for it! Dan


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Old 12-30-2007, 08:50 AM
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Most of the PID controllers that I've purchased come with a small thermocouple. It is pretty tiny though, so if your needing something longer to go through the wall of the kiln, you might have to purchase one. Make sure you purchase one that is compatible with the temps you'll be experiencing. Type "K" is the normal one for kiln/forge usage.

For 220V your going to need a double pole contactor, make sure you check the specs before buying to ensure its rated for 220V usage. The expert on this sort of stuff is Merle Rush (goes by Blacksmith101 on the forums). I'll dig up his email and send it to you.....if anybody know exactly what to do its Merle.


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Old 12-30-2007, 03:52 PM
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Sorry it took me so long to jump on this question guys. Just trying to get year end stuff finished up. The PID controllers that Ed and I use will support either a normal contactor relay or a SSR relay. You will need a 2 pole- 2 position. 1 pole will support 120v. x 2=240v for the electric elements. Check the (RESISTIVE) load capapilities of the SSR or contactor. These will have to be heavy enough to handle the heavy load current. I use a standard HVAC contactor that sells for around $12. It has a 120v coil. If need I can either post the schematics or I know I sent them to Ed. The K-thermocouple I use is covered with stainless and is 12" long. Just place it into the hot salt when melted and the PID will handle the temps you programmed into it. The link for the probe is http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=JTIN&Nav=tema07 Omega is quick and has decent pricing. If you guys have any more questions feel free to e-mail me. Merle


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Old 12-30-2007, 04:40 PM
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There ya go folks! Straight from the expert. Merle is the best at knowing/figuring this stuff. If he can put it in terms/drawings that I can understand (and I'm pretty dense about this stuff), then anyone should be able to do it with his instructions! Thanks for jumping in on this Merle! You da Man!!


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Old 02-06-2008, 09:38 PM
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Whoopee!

I got the salt pot up to temp tonight! On a semi-budget too . Cost me 300 for the kiln (from my father in law) 220V 30amp kiln setter by skutt. 78 for the stainless schd 40 3" tubing 24" long with a 6x6 stainless bottom. 27 to have it heli-arc welded (talk about a thing of beauty! For a weld that is. The PID controller was about 40, the thermocouple was about 25, The salts were about 70 and the contact relay and misc another 30. So all in all, not too bad.

570 when all said and done. I still don't have the contactor yet and need to make up a stand for the controller and all that. But otherwise I am pretty much ready to rock for spot on heat treat.

One note though....... When testing it out on a piece of mild steel..... Don't drop it in. Got lucky and was able to fish it out very carefully with a pair of old tongs. Dan


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Old 02-07-2008, 04:21 PM
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Be careful with the hot salts. A moments inattention can and will cause serious burns. Cover up with heavy clothing, use a face shield and don't try to hold a conversation with anyone while working w/ hot salt. Be SURE to preheat any metal objects (knives) before trying to put them into the salts so there will not be ANY moisture condensation occur. A tiny drop of water condensation WILL cause the salts to pop hot materials in all directions. Other than that - enjoy.


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Old 02-08-2008, 07:46 AM
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Hey Bill

Hey Bill,
Don't worry, I remember your advice from the heat treating you helped me with. I have a question for you though- what kind of wire did you use to hang the blade into the salt with?

PS- Don't worry- safety wise I am a fraidy cat. I like all my parts just the way they are right now- intact. Molten anything does not sound like a fun time if it gets on you! Dan


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Old 02-08-2008, 04:03 PM
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I use Ford repair bailing wire Dan. Commonly known as tie wire for tying rebar together. You can use oxy/acet welding wire too but a roll of tie wire will last forever and you can use it to hold your Ford together with also (grin). Olympia Supply will have it.


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Old 03-23-2008, 09:39 AM
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Nice!

I heat treated seven blades, normalized x 2 4 others yesterday in about 2-2 1/2 hours. Thanks to Merle, Ed and Bill. 52100 blade steel heat treated properly Now I just have to do the hard part which is all the sanding and fit up. Dan


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