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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2008, 10:47 PM
Jim R. Glines Jim R. Glines is offline
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ABS School

Hi Ed, I posted this on the fit and finish fourm, but didn't get many come backs. I wanted to know about the ABS class called handles and guards. I went to there basic bladesmith class and was very pleased with that, had the great honor to meet and talk with Mr. Moran, what a nice man. If I go, the class instructor is Joe Kessler. I just wanted to know what you and some other knife maker though of that class. its alot of money for one week, unless you get lots of info.
Thanks
Jim
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2008, 05:51 AM
beebee58 beebee58 is offline
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Jim, I'll start off by saying that I have also taken some ABS classes and that one of my instructors was Joe Keesler. Joe is a retired high school teacher, so his ability to present information in a logicial order is exceptional. He is also one of these guys that loves to share his knowledge with everyone. I know for a fact that he loves to teach at the ABS school because "the students at the ABS school are like a sponges" they want to be there and have the desire to learn. This alone makes his classes very informative.
With that being said, Joe does not "hoover" over you. He will let you make some small mistakes and when asked, he will then present you with differant solutions to your problem. That way you can explore differant ways to over come a problem.


Now, for my disclaimer.............. I met Joe at the 1st Moran hammer-in and he and his wife have adopted both my son Clayton and I. We have traveled to there house on sereral occasions and stayed for a few days each time working on our knives. Each time I attend the ABS school I stop at there house and spend the night there. He has taught me most of what I know about knifemaking including engraving. I even traveled 1000 miles (one way) too due my ABS Preformance test under Joe Keesler and Bert Gaston. The reason that I bring this up, is that not everyone gets along with everyone.

That being said, I get along with Joe Keesler very well, and would say that you would enjoy his class and that it would be worth the money and time spent.


Sorry about the long reply, and I know that you addressed the question to Ed.

BB
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2008, 08:04 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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I whole heartedly agree with BB's assessment of Joe's teaching ability. He is a super friendly guy, who has the outstanding teaching skills.

OK, that being said, there are two things about taking the class you need to consider.

1. Mostly likely, Joe is going to teach you his style of handles and guards. If that is something you want, then your on the right track. I say this because I hear a lot of comments from folks who have attended a class on the order of "It was good, but he only taught me how to make HIS handles."

2. Your going to be in a group setting, where there will be 9-12 other individuals competing for the instructor's attention and time. Some individuals function well in that environment, but others often feel like they got less than what they paid for.

I would recommend contacting the school, and better yet, Joe, in person and inquire on what will specifically be taught, that way you have a clear picture of what to expect, and will be prepared for it.


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  #4  
Old 02-20-2008, 08:49 AM
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Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
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Wink My $.02

Hi Jim,

This is just my humble opinion but if I had the time and the $ I would drive, fly, cycle, or hitch-hike
to Great Falls, MT and have Ed give you a tailor-made class. I took Ed's basic bladesmithing
course, and followed up with a 2 day refresher course (after an MKA show) the next year,
and I learned more there during those 7 days than I all the other classes combined. I plan on doing
my damascus intro as soon as I can get a press .

Anyhow, maybe this would not work for you but I figured I'd get a plug in for, what I consider, one of the
finest instructors in the business. When Ed has a student he does not answer the phone or allow company,
just to ensure that the student gets the maximum benefit of the one-on-one class. I've taken day classes
other places and have never had this kind of attention paid me.

Dana
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2008, 08:55 AM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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Joe Keeslar is most skilled in handle and guards area of knifemaking. If I had the time and money I would not hesitate one second to take a class from Joe. I worked with him at 3 Pomona Forging clinics and he is very knowledgeable and extremely skillful. Also Are you aware that there is a scholarship specifically for handles a guards class. It is the Scott Taylor Memorial Scholarship available through the school. Check out their website and you might qualify.


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  #6  
Old 02-20-2008, 09:01 AM
Jim R. Glines Jim R. Glines is offline
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Thanks guys for the info. It is nice to talk with you knife maker, at lest now when I decide what to do, I won't feel like I am in the dark and have know idea what I am doing. you were all very helpful.
Thanks
Jim
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  #7  
Old 02-20-2008, 12:26 PM
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Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
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No offense intended.......

guys. I was simply relaying my experience with Ed. I am certain that Joe, indeed, lives up to his
legendary reputation. I just found the one-on-one with Ed extremely profitable for me as I seem to
learn more in that environment than in a class type atmosphere. That's all

Take care,
Dana
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  #8  
Old 02-20-2008, 08:55 PM
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Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
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No offense taken here Dana. Ed is a great smith though I have not had the chance to work with him I know he is very willing to help out a fellow maker. His work is great also and I have all of his CD's.


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  #9  
Old 02-21-2008, 08:02 AM
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Ed Caffrey Ed Caffrey is offline
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Hey Folks,

I wanted to jump in here and let you know that I, in no way am attempting to sway anyone from attending the ABS classes. Nor am I trying to get folks to come to me. After I wrote that, I realized that some might take it as me trying to get folks to come to me instead of going to the ABS classes....not so. I fully support the ABS, and the ABS classes.... I was only pointing out some things the folks might not be aware of, in hopes of helping them make a more informed decision.

Both the ABS and I, as a member of the ABS offer Bladesmithing classes, and that could be interpreted as a conflict to some, so I wanted to clear the whole thing up right now. The ABS has no other option than to have classes with as many individuals as possible, because the expenses involved are much greater. Where as I am an individual, working out of my own shop, and choose to only host one student at a time. I enjoy teaching very much, and have been on the list to teach at the ABS school since earning my MS, but have never been contacted to teach there....so I do it from my shop.

As for the quality of instruction, Joe is without a doubt, one of the best there is. The only difference I wanted to point out is that at the ABS school you will be a face in the crowd, where as in my shop you will be the ONLY face.


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  #10  
Old 02-21-2008, 08:11 AM
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Dana Hackney Dana Hackney is offline
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Thanks Ed and Chuck!

Let me also add that I was in no way trying to sway anyone from attending an ABS class.
I know that the instruction/instructors are the are some of the very best in the world an that's why I made sure
that I preceded my statement with "my $.02". I was just bragging on Ed's abilities as an intructor and
the one on one environment.

Thanks, Chuck, for the reply. I am glad my comments weren't mistaken

Best regards,
Dana

Last edited by Dana Hackney; 02-21-2008 at 08:15 AM.
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  #11  
Old 02-21-2008, 11:15 AM
mike koller mike koller is offline
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One good thing about class environments is that... If you have a question, not sure how to phrase it, someone may ask it, or the conversation may answer it. If not then you can.

If it is allowed record the class/ conversation.

All said and done... there will be more questions that you wish had been asked.

Through the collective knowledge and understanding ones individual style will show.


Just my thoughts


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  #12  
Old 02-29-2008, 10:06 PM
oldfooter oldfooter is offline
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Commet on Joe

I would like to add a commit on Joe. I was lucky to have him for a student teacher as well as a teacher in high school. I have worked with him on a couple of muzzle loading rifles, which he is also a master builder. His wood carving is magnificant. He is an amazing person. He shares his talents with everyone freely. I am lucky enough to call him a friend and intend to work with him as he has offered numerous times on some knives. My life has just been too busy with family. Never doubt his talent he is amazing.
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  #13  
Old 04-08-2008, 04:18 PM
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I would strongly advise anyone wanting to further their craft to put things into perspective when thinking of paying for a class, either one on one, or in a larger class. I understand it can be a large sum of money when you figure in travel, lost time from work, tuition cost.
But I have not heard of anyone who wasnt happy for taking them.

I have not had the oppritunity to take an ABS class, but have taken 2 seprate week long classes with MS Jim Crowell. My knife making has been enhanced 10 fold. I honestly belive that I knocked 15 years off of my learning curve, if I could have ever attained the level Im at by myself at all.

Yes I did learn "His" style, but the basic concepts are there.

The "Tips & Tricks" you will learn are a huge thing.

Over all I cant reccomend it enough, and I made a lifelong friend in the process! Priceles.

Just my $0.02

God Bless
Mike


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Old 04-08-2008, 04:47 PM
Bob Hartman Bob Hartman is offline
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Mike,
That is good to hear. I'm taking the class that Mr. Crowell, and Mr. Potier are teaching this October. You're right about the money. The class itself is pretty reasonable, but the traveling, living, eating, drinking. . . oh yeah, dry county. With side trips and a different route home I figure about 4200 miles. Let see, gas will probably be around $4 a gallon, 17 miles a gallon. . .YIKES!
I plan on having a blast.
Bob
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  #15  
Old 04-08-2008, 06:01 PM
tomh tomh is offline
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I had really considered going to the ABS school for the 2 week basic class, but when I did all the math, and considering class size and instructor ratio, that was what made me consider going to see Ed for 4 days. Airfare, hotel, car rental, vittles for the ABS school added up fast. I drove over to Great Falls, got a room for 5 nights, and we were in business.

There is a lot to be said for one on one instruction, and I ended up saving a few bucks, making a good friend, and I learned a whole heck of a lot! Would I have learned more in 2 weeks in a class setting or 4 days one on one? Who can say, but I don't feel I wasted my time or money. I don't think a guy could go wrong either way, you just have to consider what would be of more benefit for yourself.

Hopefully I did not offend Ed when I told him I did not want to make his knives :-) Then when I got in trouble on some design elements he said, I'm hesitant to tell you what I would do there, since you don't want to make my knives ;-) Too-shay!
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