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  #1  
Old 07-05-2003, 07:20 PM
Pete E Pete E is offline
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Question on Cardboard Sharpening wheels...

Sometime ago I bought a set of 8" x 1" Cardboard sharpening wheels and their associated grits ect. These are designed to replace the standard stones on a bench grinder. They were chucked in the back of a draw until I got around to buying a suitable dedicated cheapy grinder to put them on.

Well, I finally got around to setting them up and trying them out tonight...All i can say is "wow"...I should explain that I have tried various ways of sharpening a knife but have never really been able to get an edge shaving sharp with out spend ages and ages on my Lanskey..Even with the pre set angles/guide success was always a bit hit or miss.

With these two simple cardboard wheels and 5 minutes practice, i was able to get really shaving sharp edges onto a knife in a minute or so. These were knives which were not exactly blunt, but were far from shaving sharp ...This system really does seem easy..

So where is the catch? I simply can't believe it is this easy? So from shaving sharp where do I go now? Can I sharpen is even further on a buff or similar?
Which way should the grinder spin with these? To work with the knife edge up, I found it easier to have the wheels spinning upwards as you look at the grinder. I seem to remember that normally a grinder spins downwards into the work as you look at it??? So which is correct or does it not really matter?

Regards,

Pete

Last edited by Pete E; 07-05-2003 at 07:25 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2003, 06:08 AM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Pete,
The cardboard wheels are a pretty good system. Used them for awhile until they wore out. Since learned to draw my final cutting edge on a slack belt on my grinder. I strop the wire burr off on an old leather belt (thrift store liberation) with a little polishing rouge worked into it. Razor every time and takes about 1.5 - 2.5 minutes per blade depending on size. I use a worn 60 then a 30 micron grit ceramic belt with the leading edge of the blade in the same direction as the belt travel. This works amazingly fast, so very light pressure is all that is needed.
On the card board wheels, buffers, grinders, etc. I always felt it much safer to have the wheel rotating toward you from the top and work below the midway point on the wheel surface. This forces anything that might get away (a pointy sharp knife) downward toward the ground. I guess as long as you make sure you are working on the surface at a point past the tangent relative to your body/head to foot, position you should be safe. However you may launch a projectile across the shop. Either way safety glasses are a must, full face shield even better.
Oh yes, while a buffer will pull off the wire burr, it has a tendency to dull the edge just a little. Takes a very light touch to keep this from happening. I quit buffing the edge when I went to the slack belt/strop combination.
Crex


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Last edited by Crex; 07-06-2003 at 06:14 AM.
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2003, 02:32 PM
Pete E Pete E is offline
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Thanks...

Crex,

Thanks for that. I don't have a belt grinder as yet as i am only just taking the first tentative steps into making my first knife. Having sharpened a couple more knives since, i can see that although it is easy to use and quite fast you still have to get the angles correct otherwise the edge soon looses its shaving sharpness...

I think a full face shild might be a wise investment, not just for this but for so many other operations around the workshop..

Regards

Pete
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  #4  
Old 07-06-2003, 08:48 PM
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Crex Crex is offline
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Hey no problem Pete. There's alot to learn in the knife making adventure. You're in the right place to find out. Wish this had been around when I got started.
You'll find edge geometry a study in itself. It's very critical to overall functionality of a blade and is based on intended use. Study other makers' knives every chance you get and ask questions. You'll get answers.
Knife making is a Pandora's Box and an exciting adventure all in one. Keep at it, but pay attention to what you learn from your mistakes as well as your successes. Above all have fun!
Be safe and good luck.
Crex


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  #5  
Old 07-07-2003, 07:12 AM
george tichbour george tichbour is offline
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I have been using one for about 5 years now since I found out that the factories were using them.

For sharpening they remove wire edges quickly without changing edge shape as a buff does and they can be used with a little edge shaping to clean out those difficult scratches at the ricasso.


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  #6  
Old 07-07-2003, 11:21 AM
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MongoForge MongoForge is offline
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So what brand name do
you guys reccomend?


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  #7  
Old 07-07-2003, 05:02 PM
C.M. Arrington C.M. Arrington is offline
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I've had a Jantz for over a year. It's still going strong. I think the kit at Texas Knifemakers is still under $20.00. It really speeds things along.
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  #8  
Old 07-10-2003, 08:48 PM
whv whv is offline
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jantz is still under $20, all others are over that - some as high as $30 for an 8" set.
.
pete - i run the wheels away from me. then, keeping the blade flat and horizontal, sharpen as close to the top of the wheel as i can while producing an edge (rather than polishing the side of the blade). you can also set up some registry marks on the body of the grinder showing you where to hold for specific edge angles. once i polish off the wire edge from the grit wheel and the hair is popping, i'm done. i really don't think you would want a knife much sharper as the edge would be too fragile.
.
if you want to know about sharp, check steve's sharpening page for more that you ever wanted to know!


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  #9  
Old 07-11-2003, 04:32 AM
Pete E Pete E is offline
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Thanks for the replies guys,

The wheels I am using come from a company called Talon or something like that and were around $30 plus P&P. Next take I will take a look at the ones by Jantz!

thanks again,

Pete
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  #10  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:17 PM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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I picked up a cool cardboard wheel at a local tool/equipment distrubuter/retailer. First time for me to visit their store...it's geared more to business to business, but they do cater to a fair number of local tradesmen (mostly woodworking).

On one side of the store they've got all kinds of (mostly) fairly heavy-duty versions of bandsaws, drill pressed, table saws, compound tables, etc. On the other side is all the smaller stuff including a large variety of clamps, finishes, sandpapers, sharpening accessories, and the like. This store apparently has been around since dinosaurs and it's fun to poke around...I'm sure some of the stuff has been there for decades!

The cardboard 8" wheel is actually more like two 1/4" wheels separated by a 1/8" space. My price was something odd like $10.67. There is no brand name to be found.

While I was there I also picked up an 8" disc that takes a 1/2" arbor suitable for popping onto the end of the (1750rpm) 1/2HP bench grinder which I'm using as a buffer. According to one of the guys it's actually meant to go onto a router, but he couldn't see why it wouldn't work for my needs, and sure enough it works just fine on my bench grinder. That only ran me about $8 bucks, so I figured what the heck! I can certainly make use of a larger disc sander. My only other disc sander is the 5" disc on my little Delta 1" X 30". (If they know you're in business you can get some great prices at this place)...I just showed them my knifemaking business card...that was good enough for them ).


One question...are you charging the cardboard wheels and if so with what sort of compound?

Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!
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  #11  
Old 07-11-2003, 07:43 PM
whv whv is offline
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dennis -
the plain edge wheel comes charged with alox grit. to recharge, tks recommends removing old stuff with 80 grit paper down to clean wheel, put on a layer of yellow glue. dump some grit onto a 4-5" square of newsprint, then pat it onto the glue from the bottom of the wheel - let dry for a day, then knock off the loose stuff. in use, add white buffing compound to the grit wheel.
the wheel with the slots gets pink no-scratch compound for removing the burr & finishing.


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  #12  
Old 07-11-2003, 08:56 PM
Pete E Pete E is offline
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Dennis,

My wheels come from Talon Manufacturing (http://talonman1.com); you may have heard of them as they sell general knife making supplies.

My wheels are charged pretty much the same as waynes. The rough wheel is covered in a very fine silicon carbide which has been gluded on with a suitable wood glue. Before use you smear on a little goose grease. The other wheel is just dressed with a little white "chalky" polishing compound before you use it. make use you wipe the blade well when switching between the wheels save contaiminating the polishing wheel with silicon carbide..

I am pretty sure Talon sells the charging kits seperately...One final thing. I would *really* recommend you buy a dedicated bench grinder for both wheels. I bought a cheap 370W 6" grinder for about $30...it works great but the body of the motor housing can crowd the knife your working on. I am going to get a 180W 6" grinder instead (even cheaper-about $22!) as the motor housing is that much smaller and leaves you nmore space to handle your blades ect. I don't think you need a powerful motor as you only need to lightly press the knife on either wheel to get the desire effect...

regards,

Pete
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  #13  
Old 07-11-2003, 09:02 PM
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Osprey Guy Osprey Guy is offline
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Thanks for the info Wayne...

The "double" wheel I bought is plain-edged on both of the side-by-side wheels (neither one is slotted as I the one I can see in the photo of the sharpening kit in the TKS catalog), and they both are bare with no grit or compound. Given where it was purchased and the other items for sale in that area of the store, I'm guessing this wheel is used by woodworkers for sharpening their woodcarving chisels and specialty knives, blades for their planes, and other related items. Perhaps they need to charge these differently on an as-needed basis, depending on the type of tool.

I was thinking that for the cardboard wheel, something like Zam is all I would need to get a "hair-popping" edge. For my leather strop I have the "Strop Dressing"...I'm not all that crazy about the strop...probably my technique...

I've also got a small leather wheel (3.5") that I bought at Woodcraft awhile back (at the same time as the strop-both were on sale). I've used Zam on the leather wheel with great success. I was just curious about the cardboard wheel and wanted to see if using that could improve any on the very good results I'm already getting from the leather wheel.

Pete- You must have been posting while i was still typing. I use the long arbor adapter extensions on both sides of my grinder...they work great....at 6" each, they get the wheels and/or buffs a good way out from the motor. I first came across this idea when I purchased the most excellent Beall Buffing System...Each of their three wood buffing wheels (one for tripoli, one for white diamond, one for carnauba wax) are pre-fitted so that they quickly screw on and off the extensions. Takes seconds to change each (pre-labeled) buff. Wish they had something similar for metal.

Dennis Greenbaum

Yeah Baby!

Last edited by Osprey Guy; 07-11-2003 at 09:10 PM.
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