MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Knife Network : Support & Services > Feature & Member Support

Feature & Member Support Questions about how to use the features on the Knife Network web site? Problems logging in? Post them in here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-05-2004, 02:35 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
Third party cookies

Is it considered proper etiquette that the banners from some certain makers on the forum attempt to add a cookie to one's computer whenever one reads a thread they have posted on? I fail to understand why a Knife Network poster's banner has to cookie my machine. There's enough intrusion on the internet as it is.

My browser security is set up to "prompt for third party cookies", so every time I go to a thread some people have posted on I end up having to click "block" several times.

I have contacted the particular website hosting service that does this, requesting an explanation, but never received any reply. Thus, I ask here.

Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-05-2004, 03:05 PM
AwP AwP is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 774
I don't know if that's usual or not, but I set mine to block all third parties and haven't had any problems. I only prompt on the first party ones, which I usually click the apply to all box and block except for forums like this one. If you don't want to autoblock them, you can check the apply to all box when you block the banner cookies, it shouldn't take long to get them all into your block list. I think the reason for the cookies is to see how many people see their banner regularly, so they know if it's good advertising or not.


__________________
~Andrew W. "NT Cough'n Monkey" Petkus
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-05-2004, 03:54 PM
SKIVIE's Avatar
SKIVIE SKIVIE is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,386
Mike, I know you and I have had this discussion before on my Banner and hope that its not still causing the problem. If I remember correctly you just accepted mine or something like that. If the host in question is the one im using maybe I can be of assistance and do a little research. Let me know if theres any thing I can do to help. I would have to agree though.....it can be a reall annoyance.

Shane


__________________
Shane Ivie Handcrafted Knives


shane@shaneivieknives.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-05-2004, 06:31 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
It seems to be a session cookie, Shane. Every time I "allow" the cookie from anyone using blademakers.com, once I close my browser it pesters me again when I come back to the forum. Obviously, it can get to be a PITA if I don't "allow" it then view other threads you've posted on. A lot of makers have banners here, but blademakers seem to be the only cookie machine...

If Chris had responded to my email with a reasonable justification I would not have posed this here. I never got a reply.

Thus, I ask here if it is proper etiquette to do this. If the admins feel it is ok, then I accept it and deal with it as I have been. However, intrusiveness on the internet is a major PITA and if it is not appropriate then blademakers.com should make the necessary adjustments.

I have my browser cookie security set as I do so I can see just where there are little sneakies being laid on my machine behind the scenes. It is surprising just how many legitimate sites allow unseen cookies from their advertisers. This certainly isn't a bad one, but just points up how intrusive the internet experience can be. Basically, I ask the question why do you have to see a counter for how many times I view your banner on different threads on a forum of mostly other makers?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-08-2004, 01:25 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
Shane, it was very considerate of you to remove your banner in response to my being upset with the cookies. Very considerate! I'll never forget that.

However, it seems not to be an issue with KNet Administration or someone would have addressed it here by now. So be it.

I have manually entered blademakers.com into my blocked-cookies list. I have tested it against Bud's posts and the cookie-alert window doesn't come up. This will thus work fine for me, personally.

Since no one else seems to take umbrage with the intrusion, I would ask that you please consider reinstating your banner. There is no reason you should cause yourself loss because of me. You paid for that banner!

Thanks, again, Shane! You're a good man! I learn from the lesson on consideration you have taught....

Last edited by fitzo; 08-08-2004 at 01:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-08-2004, 05:14 PM
KNAdmin's Avatar
KNAdmin KNAdmin is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,125
Mike,

What would you have me do about it?

All I can recommend is that you block all cookies, or target and isolate the one's the offend you.

Being tracked is part of the internet ... the moment you log on, establish a connection IP, you're being tracked ... by your isp and all other network connections you travel down. Leaving a footprint for a banner tracker is nothing to be concerned with, assuming you're only worried with security issues.

If you're worried about tracking issues, you need to block them all. 90% of all cookies are used to track something, such as your visits to sites and authenticating your preferences.

There's a lot of bad press about malicious cookies, but most people don't even know the difference in a good one and a bad one.

Let me know what you would like done here and I'll try to assist. We're not going to globally ban cookies. But I might start a thread with cookied domains and allow you to create your own block management.

For others ... just set cookies to med-high and you'll never have to worry. If they have a compact privacy policy then you have no concerns. All others will be blocked.


Alex


__________________
Alex Whetsell

[======]~~~~~~~>

Atlantavirtual.com
Atlanta NOC
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-08-2004, 08:49 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
Alex,

Thank you, you've responded, which is all you can do short of objecting to them. You've stated your policy, it's your site, and I can accept your policies to be a member here. I cannot say I like the idea that a maker's banner cookies a machine; malicious or benign, I see it as intrusion. To the best of my ability to tell, there is only one hosting site represented here that does that. However, I am not naive, and realize they are everywhere.

As I stated in my last response, I will deal with it on a local basis, and now understand better how to eliminate those 3rd-party cookies I don't like. I use both Adaware and Spyhunter to clean my machine frequently, and manually block those I don't like.

My complaint resulted because I have "prompt for 3rd party cookies" clicked, and it was annoying to have the blademakers.com cookies show repeatedly every time I clicked on a thread a member of that service posted on. Clicking "block all cookies" resulted in blocking the cookies from KNET, too, so that wasn't a valid fix. Entering the host manually seems to have fixed that.

Thus, I thank you for your response. I wanted those interested to be aware of the practice in this specific instance. Adequate information has been supplied so anyone who choses to do as I have can accomplish it.

Again, I thank you....

Last edited by fitzo; 08-08-2004 at 10:24 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-17-2004, 11:22 AM
Chris_Crawford's Avatar
Chris_Crawford Chris_Crawford is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saltillo, MS - USA
Posts: 294
I know that this is an old thread, but I've just now come across it. I would like to address this issue to clear my name and the BladeMakers.com website name.

Mike emailed me about this issue, and I responded to him with the following email on July 27th 2004. Here is a copy of the email I sent. If anyone would like further information, feel free to contact me.

Thanks -chris

--------------------------------

Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2004 20:52:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Chris Crawford" <chris_crawford@yahoo.com> View Contact Details View Contact Details
Subject: Re: (BladeMakers - Contact) - 3rd party cookies
To: fitzo1@ameritech.net
CC: chris_crawford@yahoo.com

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the email and letting me know your concern
about 3rd party cookies coming from BladeMakers.com.
Please allow me to explain what's going on. I'll give
you both a short version and a longer more technical
version in case you are interested.

Well as for the short version, even though Internet
Explorer gives you a message that a cookie is being
created from BladeMakers.com, it actually is not. In
fact, if you delete all of your cookies and watch the
cookie directory, you will never see a cookie be
written for BladeMakers.com.

Now for the longer version and a description of what's
going on. Please allow me to first explain what is
happening, and then I will explain why it's happening.


When you pull up a banner that links back to
BladeMakers.com, rather than a cookie being created,
what is actually happening is a session variable is
being created. A session variable is similar to a
cookie in that it is a storage area in memory which
information can be saved. The difference is that the
session variable is never saved to your computer, and
it disappears when you close your browser. A cookie
stays around until the expiration date which is set by
the website expires.

If you do a right click on the SKIVIE's banner and
look at the properties, you will see that it does not
actually link back to a .jpg image, but rather to the
address
http://shaneivie.blademakers.com/Ima...ent_Value=1041.
All of the images and information found on any
BladeMakers.com website is saved in a database. When
you access Image_Bonus.asp and pass it a identity
value, Image_Bonus.asp looks in the database for the
image with the value 1041, retrieves it, and passes it
back to the user. The user simply sees it as an image
of type .jpg.

OK, keep that in mind as I temporarily jump to
something else. If you notice, almost all users who
have a website at Blademakers.com have a web address
which starts off as some-name.blademakers.com. For
instance, if I had a business called Joe Knives, my
address may be something like
joeknives.blademakers.com. Now, any web address that
ends in blademakers.com is nothing more than a link
which points to back to one website and one database.
However, the visitor to the site will only see the
relative information for the site he is interested in.
For example, Joe Knives. When the user types in the
address, my program rips off the first part of the
name, joeknives for example, and looks that name up in
a database. This is where the session variable comes
in. When the name joeknives is found, the program
finds the user_number that's associated with joeknives
and writes it to a session variable called User_Num.
So, if you were looking at joeknives website, you will
only see the knives, shop tour, etc... that relate to
Joe Knives because the database is only going to
return pictures and information matching joeknives'
User_Number. This makes it look like each website has
its own database, when actually all knife pictures and
other information is kept in one huge database.

So, the question now is why are you getting the cookie
message when your browser tries to display a banner,
or any image for that matter, linked form
BladeMakers.com. Well, remember earlier when we looked
at the properties of the SKIVIE's banner? When you try
to display that image, the program on the website has
to lookup who shaneivie.blademakers.com is,
temporarily write the User_Num for shaneivie to a
session variable, call the program that pulls the
image from the database, and pass that session
variable to the program so that it knows which image
to return.

I'm not sure why Internet Explorer sees a session
variable in the same way that it does a cookie. Keep
in mind that session variables are never written to
your hard drive, and they go away when you close your
browser. I have my internet security setting set at
the default which is medium and it works fine without
giving me any messages or warnings. I would assume
that you have yours set higher since you are getting
the alerts.

Here is a solution to the problem if you are
interested... In your Internet Explorer, click on
Tools in the top menu, then on Internet Options and
the Privacy tab. In the box at the bottom, click Edit.
Under Addresses of Web Sites type "blademakers.com"
and click the Add button. Once you do this, the
message will not pop up when you see pictures or
banners which come from BladeMakers.com.

Let me assure you that I have no interest in capturing
any information from anyone who visits my site or
views an image link connected back to my site. I'm
just a part time knifemaker who created this website
to give other knifemakers an easy way to maintain
their own websites, and to make a little money on the
side. I'm the only one who maintainers the site, and I
pretty much just do it in my free time. With all of
the spyware out there I can understand and appreciate
your concern with the cookie issue. I hope I've done a
good job of explaining what is going on, and why it's
happening. I have no problem with you talking to Alex
about the problem if you feel you need do, but if you
do please forward him this email as I have explained
here what is going on.

I'm out of town working this week, and that's why I'm
just now getting around to answering the email. I'm
actually working on my laptop in a hotel room in
Jackson Mississippi. I'll have a temporary cell phone
with me for the rest of this week, and you are welcome
to give me a call if you would like to talk more about
this, or anything else for that matter. I love to talk
to other knifemakers. My cell number for the rest of
the week will be XXX-XXX-XXXX. (Phone Number Removed 12/17/04)

Thanks again, and sorry for creating such a long
email. Pleas respond to this message when get an
opportunity.

Thanks -chris


--- fitzo1@ameritech.net wrote:

> Hello, Chris,
>
> I have to say that I find it a little bit
> aggravating that everyone on
> KnifeNetwork who has a banner in their sig line that
> uses blademakers
> tries to cookie my machine every time I try to read
> a thread that they
> have responded on. Examples would be nifeman and
> SKIVIE. Even if I allow
> the cookie, it tries to do it the next time I enter
> a thread they've
> responded to again. It is not fair to invade
> someone's machine in this
> manner simply because they read on a forum.
>
> I wanted to give you an opportunity to respond
> before I complained to
> Alex.
>
> Thank you.
>
> mike "fitzo"
>
>
>

=====
Chris Crawford Knives
Custom Knives, Handmade by Chris Crawford
http://www.chriscrawford.com/knives

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


__________________
Chris Crawford


DVDs & Tutorials are available at http://chriscrawfordknives.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-17-2004, 12:54 PM
fitzo fitzo is offline
Living Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,926
Wow, Chris, that be an old thread!

I want to say that, with utter sincerity, I never received the email. Who knows why, sometimes they just never show up, but I hope you will believe me. i was definitely looking for it, even in the "bulk" folder.

I had that "prompt for 3rd party cookies" turned on at the time and it was driving me nuts clicking and clicking to get rid of it on every thread Shane or Bud had posted on. I eventually got it fixed with help I received here.

I hope you will accept my apology for getting pissed, and hope you can understand where my ire was coming from. I had asked Shane about this at the time, before I ever posted here, and didn't run directly to the forum without having written you first. When I didn't get a response, I posted here, and Alex set me straight.

While I now understand much better, and your posting the email clarified things even further, I hope you will also consider how aggravated I got having to "multi-click" every thread to kill what appeared to be a cookie.

Once again, I extend my sincere apologies for creating any hassle or embarassment. It was my ignorance.

Last edited by fitzo; 12-17-2004 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-19-2004, 07:17 AM
Chris_Crawford's Avatar
Chris_Crawford Chris_Crawford is offline
Steel Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Saltillo, MS - USA
Posts: 294
Hey Mike, no problem. I can understand where you were coming from and your point of view at the time. I guess we get so trusting in email that I never considered the email may not have made it to you. I really should have followed up better to make sure you got an answer. Thanks for writing the reply, and I look forward to seeing you around the forums. -chris


__________________
Chris Crawford


DVDs & Tutorials are available at http://chriscrawfordknives.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
forge, knife, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:10 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved