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  #1  
Old 09-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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New Forging hammer design

Here's this "long nosed cross peen" design I've been working on. It's 7 inches from face to face with a 14 inch handle. I'm guessing it will be between 3-4 pounds, just about right for up to inch square or round stock.

This is just the model, but I am in the process of getting a functional steel prototype made, and then go into small scale production with it. I also have variations of long nosed style that I'm working on. The, "TAI", designer hammer series...

If anyone is interested email me to get on the waiting list:
taigoo@msn.com







All images moved here:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v4...TAI%20Hammers/


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Last edited by Tai Google; 04-30-2010 at 08:53 AM.
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2009, 06:36 AM
Martin Brandt Martin Brandt is offline
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Looks nice Tai, any chance of a square faced model? That would get me goin for sure! What method of manufacture, casting or forged? What steel?
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2009, 06:46 AM
Wade Holloway Wade Holloway is offline
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I would be interested in that also. How long before you get started on these Tai?
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  #4  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:05 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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I am considering making some variations in the future, after I see how this one goes.

I don't use any square faced hammers, although I do use some octagonal and round faced hammers. Square on which end? What do you like about a square face?

These will probably be precision machined from a computer model. The machinist (Nathan) is working on the computer model right now. We may tweak it a bit to streamline production, but we'll stay with basic form and concept with this one. I?m not set up for forging them, but if I hit a dead end with the machining, I?d go cast.

Once we have the computer model, it shouldn't be too hard to make a few variations.

I'm thinking about using 4150 tempered to a Rockwell 54. Does than sound about right?

I should have a prototype to try out within a month or so and I?m hoping to have a few to sell by the end of the year.


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  #5  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:30 PM
jph jph is offline
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Tai:

Ok bro..put me down for one..say in the 4 to 5# range....I want one!!

JPH


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  #6  
Old 09-18-2009, 01:30 AM
Martin Brandt Martin Brandt is offline
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Tai, I like square on the hammer face, with slight crown and radiused corners to be put on by recipient to their individual preferences. I started out with octagonal face hammers cause that's all I could get at g-sales and normal places. Got tuurned on to square face hammers at blacksmith association conferences, made a couple and really liked them for ability to work close to an edge, for pulling blows, for angling to draw with same face, and texturing with edges on angle. 3 1/2# is ideal weight I think, but then I'm built more like you, and not like Raymond with arms as big as my legs. For Ray I think 4# is his lightest hammer. Rc 54 sounds good if the steel is a tough one. Might be just a little over hard, but then it isn't likely to dent when using it to strike chisels and drifts whose ends should be left pretty soft in my opinion.
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  #7  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:41 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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O.K. Jim, I?ll put you on the list.

Thanks for the feedback Martin. I'll have to try a square face and see what that's like.

I think that in recent years the advantages of the long nosed style in general has gained a lot of recognition and popularity in the U.S.A. with blacksmiths, coppersmiths, bladesmiths etc. However, they are the standard in other places like Japan and Mexico etc. I don't see any with what I consider a true long nose being offered commercially and most people have to make their own or just get by with what they can find available.

Here's a few advantages of the long nose just off the top of my head:
#1. A relatively small face with a lot of weight behind it for better penetration and/or less resistance.
#2. The relatively small sharp face tends to pop scale better as opposed to a broad flat face.
#3. More clearance from the work, tongs, opposite hand etc...
(Clearance when working with the handle parallel to the stock and/or tongs, and in many cases easier to control than coming in from the side with the handle perpendicular or at an angle to the stock.)
#4. Able to get into tight places that shorter faced hammer can't,... more reach.
#5. Less flexing of the wrist.

If you haven't seen my video yet, "Hot Forging Basics", I demonstrate with similar hammers, and many of my more advanced freehand techniques rely on the long nosed style.

... more info., about the video on my website.


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Last edited by Tai Google; 09-18-2009 at 11:37 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:55 PM
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jonwelder jonwelder is offline
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Cool one suggestion:

One suggestion: Could you "twist" the flat of the head to 45 degrees to the handle? That way you could hammer parallel to the anvil. You have to twist it the right way for right hand or left hand use,, I've seen hammers made this way, they work great for drawing without having to twist your arms or body so much.... Jon


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  #9  
Old 09-19-2009, 09:47 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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One of the things I was trying to explain or suggest in my last post is that you can use the rectangular face at any angle to the stock (including with the handle parallel to the stock). because of the "clearance". However, it is also matter of using good technique, and it's hard to explain things like "stance", stock/tong position etc... with just words. My video shows some of that kind of stuff. So, in other words this hammer design will take the place of a straight peen or a 45 degree angle peen with better/easier control and less stress or strain to the body. After I figured out how to use it, my straight peens and 45 degree angle peens became obsolete.

With a straight peen or 45 degree angle peen you don?t really need the clearance because you are coming in from the side of the stock. However, for many advanced techniques it is harder to get the same level of control or the type of control that is needed for certain procedures by working with the handle parallel to the stock... An example would be precise two and four sided shouldering (for tangs etc.), freehand over the edge of the anvil, which requires a high level of control which I've never been able to achieve (or seen) any other way,... accept with spring dies or jigs of some kind. Those also became obsolete once I started using this style of hammer.

Before I started using this style of long nosed cross peen, I had a lot of trouble with tendonitis and arthritis in my wrists, which went away after I started using them. I had seen hammers similar to this, but never realized all the advantages until I tried it.

The main difference in my new design and the ones I?ve seen is, that it has a shorter broad round flat face on the opposite end. In essence the long nosed cross peen end is for moving the steel directionally, by setting up a series of deep dents, and the flat round face is for working out the dents,? which is the easiest, most efficient way to move the steel. The round flat face is also for driving punches, chisels etc..

One common mistake that many newbies (and even advanced smiths) make is that they are afraid to dent the steel. Denting the steel= moving the steel. Trying to move the steel without denting it and strictly using broad flat faced hammers is inefficient and creates a lot more stress and shock to the steel and body. It also drives scale into the steel, rather than popping it off, which often results in unnecessary pitting.

... and here we once thought the hammer was a simple, unsophisticated tool...


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Last edited by Tai Google; 09-19-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2009, 02:13 PM
jph jph is offline
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One common mistake that many newbies (and even advanced smiths) make is that they are afraid to dent the steel. Denting the steel= moving the steel. Trying to move the steel without denting it and strictly using broad flat faced hammers is inefficient and creates a lot more stress and shock to the steel and body. It also drives scale into the steel, rather than popping it off, which often results in unnecessary pitting.

Right on Brother...

The only time you want a smooth sufcae in bladesmithing is in the final forged surface..Drawing out, after all is nothing more than a whole gaggle of dents that you hammer flat when you are done...Now careless hammer marks ARE a bad thing but a decent smith that has the skills and hammer control can get a surface pretty darn near absolutely flat when he is done...

I want one of these...they are sexy too!

JIM


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  #11  
Old 09-20-2009, 09:03 AM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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I've been giving the square face suggestion some thought,... and since this long nose cross peen (rectangular) can turn or work at any direction or angle to the stock, you could do anything with it that you could do with a square face, and there are some other natural advantages as already mentioned.


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Last edited by Tai Google; 09-20-2009 at 09:05 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2009, 10:13 AM
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Raymond Richard Raymond Richard is offline
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Tai, What about those people that would prefer a straight peen model?

Marty, Who's this Raymond fellow? Sounds like a real man to me........


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  #13  
Old 09-21-2009, 01:16 PM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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Like I was saying,... straight peens are obsolete...

Hey Ray. I'll put you on the list,... you'll see!

It has a lot to do with the geometry of the human body, and the relationship between the human body, hammer, stock and anvil.

Don?t make me do the math here,? but just let me say that the natural human hammer stroke is on a ?radius?, ( not straight up and down), with natural pivot points at the shoulder, elbow and wrist.

Coming straight down on the steel with the elbow tucked and the hammer handle parallel to the stock, instead of at an arc from the side with more probable lateral variance in relationship to the stock and anvil, facilitates certain procedures and is naturally easier to control in many cases? The distance from the elbow to the desired point of contact/penetration is much easier to control and predict, than the radius of the elbow joint to the anvil laterally, this way.


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Last edited by Tai Google; 09-21-2009 at 01:56 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-21-2009, 02:53 PM
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Raymond Richard Raymond Richard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai Google
Like I was saying,... straight peens are obsolete...

Hey Ray. I'll put you on the list,... you'll see!

It has a lot to do with the geometry of the human body, and the relationship between the human body, hammer, stock and anvil.

Don?t make me do the math here,? but just let me say that the natural human hammer stroke is on a ?radius?, ( not straight up and down), with natural pivot points at the shoulder, elbow and wrist.

Coming straight down on the steel with the elbow tucked and the hammer handle parallel to the stock, instead of at an arc from the side with more probable lateral variance in relationship to the stock and anvil, facilitates certain procedures and is naturally easier to control in many cases? The distance from the elbow to the desired point of contact/penetration is much easier to control and predict, than the radius of the elbow joint to the anvil laterally, this way.
Tai, Is this new hammer going to be the" NEW MAGIC WAND"? I really prefer to do my drawing out with a straight peen. After that I'll switch to a cross. Can you make it with an adjustable peen that would run cross or straight at the flick of the wrist? I think my belly is to big for me to draw out the way you do.


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  #15  
Old 09-21-2009, 04:14 PM
Tai Google Tai Google is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Richard
Tai, What about those people that would prefer a straight peen model?
I'd try to break them of bad habits and teach them a better way to do it.

... If your belly is that big, I have a special program designed to stretch your arms out which involves a rack, ropes, chains a pry bar and a ratchet,... but it's not cheap!...


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Last edited by Tai Google; 09-21-2009 at 04:27 PM.
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