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Heat Treating and Metallurgy Discussion of heat treatment and metallurgy in knife making.

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  #1  
Old 09-03-2004, 11:26 PM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
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which oil for 1095

Is canola oil a desent oil to heat treat 1095? It is the oil that my mom had at hand so thats what i have used lately on some o1 that i had. If not canola what kind of oil would you recomend?

Thanks,
KJ
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2004, 03:29 PM
Quenchcrack Quenchcrack is offline
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Canola Oil

Kyle, I was waiting to see what the experts suggested but for some reason, we are not attracting a lot of replies. 1095 is a fairly forgiving steel and can be hardended with a water quench. I would rate canola as a light and fast oil. Yes, I think you can use it to harden 1095. If you have used it without warping your blade, I would say you are OK. You might want to heat it up to about 120F if you do get warping.

That being said, I would really like to hear the opinions of the folks who have used it.


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Last edited by Quenchcrack; 09-04-2004 at 03:31 PM. Reason: typo
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2004, 10:50 PM
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rlinger rlinger is offline
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1095 is a shallow hardening steel. It is a water quench steel. However, our steels are relatively thin and a oil quench for us should be okay. I have never quenched 1095 except for Thunderforged damascus which has both O1 and 1095 composition. Two cases, one in off the shelf vegi oil preheated to about 125 F and then one in Brownell's Tough-Quench preheated to about 105 F. Both blades turned out superb as far as edge retension goes. I have also triple water quenched Thunderforged. On the third water quench the thin edge rippled (that is very nasty).

1095 should be introduced to quench extremely quick. Time from oven to quench should not exceed 1 second. Some profess that is too long.

RL


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Last edited by rlinger; 09-04-2004 at 11:01 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-04-2004, 11:38 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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here's a little info re: 1084 vs 1095 from Terry Primos-something to think about:
"You may well find yourself getting more consistent results and fewer problems in heat treating with 1084 than with 1095. This is in part because of the additional manganese present in 1084. Manganese slightly increases the strength of ferrite, and also increases the hardness penetration in the quench by decreasing the critical quenching speed."

Of course 1084 is hard to find theses days bu the 1080 so far seems just fine.

Roger the technically "nose" for 1095 is .6 seconds - but the current batch available has been all over the board as to carbon content - if much under .90 carbon I'd suggest suing the 1084 specs for heat treating.


Kyle - canola should work fine for 1095, most of the guys I know use something similar, personally I've always liked peanut oil since it has the highest flash point of all the vegetable oils.

Quench although 1095 - and the other 10xx series are technically water quench steels, I can't think off hand anyway of any of the knife smiths, even those top end forgers such as Don Fogg & Tai Goo, who use water when quenching blades.


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  #5  
Old 09-04-2004, 11:50 PM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
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How is it even possible to quench in .6 seconds? Where can i get my hands on some 1080? I know admiral sells it, but last i checked, you had to pay $25 on small quantities. Are there any other options?

Thanks,
KJ
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  #6  
Old 09-05-2004, 12:06 AM
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Admiral, last I spoke to them about it (in May I believe), refers to it as 1075 / 1080. It is 1075 and if you get specific with them about it they will concure on that. I asked for the highest carbon content 5 foot bar I could get and it was 0.72%. It is 1075. With shipping I paid 40 some bucks for 1/4 inch X 2 inch X 5 foot. OH, it is a wonderful blade steel. I found that out.

Big yes on the tight 1095 nose. It seems the last TTT chart I saw on it was around 1/2 second. We aren't doing that by hand. I practice like piano players practice and I am at about 1 second. Any quicker and I'll end up slinging it into the wall .

RL


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  #7  
Old 09-05-2004, 12:10 AM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Kyle first off I didn't mean to scare you away from 1095 - it is a great knife steel and you just have to have your quench close to your forge or furnace in Roger's case :cool: to hit the nose.

Kelly Cupples (509) 728-0057
Kelly had 1084 and should have 1080 in stock - he does have a $25.00 minimum but it's postage paid anywhere in the 48 states.
1084
1/8X 1"..........................................1.9 5
1X 1 1/4.........................................2.15

1080
3/16X 1.........................................1.90
3/16X 1 1/2....................................2.40
Kelly is also a great guy to deal with!

BTW - where are you at? there might be a maker in your area that could help out. Also if you're in a farm area: plow shares, harrow disks, etc are commonly made from 1080/1084.


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Last edited by Chuck Burrows; 09-05-2004 at 12:16 AM.
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  #8  
Old 09-05-2004, 01:54 AM
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Yeah, my problm was I didn't locate 1084 or even 1080 in the width I needed (2 inch). I settled on 1075 but it turned out just great for the type knife it was used for. Chuck, I have another to start ASAP and will use the 1075 I have in stock unless you might know of a source for 2 inch wide by 1/4 thick 1080(?). I remember now, that's another thing - I believe I was having trouble finding 1080 in 1/4 thick too. I appreciate any thoughts on that (2 X 1/4 inch).

RL


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  #9  
Old 09-05-2004, 07:34 AM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Admiral lists hot rolled 1084 - http://www.admiralsteel.com/products/200/hr1084.html

Seems like the home snow plow manufacturers use it in 1/2" x 6" - may be worth contacting one of them and see who they get it from.

Otherwise give Kelly a call and see if he might know?????


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  #10  
Old 09-05-2004, 11:36 AM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
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i live in oregon, about a half hour south of portland. I'm not so worried about slinging it into the wall because i have it locked in some vice grips. I am worried about slopping oil all over my moms carpet though

Thanks again,
KJ

Last edited by kyle juedes; 09-05-2004 at 11:40 AM.
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  #11  
Old 09-05-2004, 11:58 AM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Kyle - Ray Richard lives in Gresham and uses 1080/1084. He usually posts in the Outpost, he's been quiet lately, but you might PM him and see if can help out.

Kelly is Eastern Washington, Yakima I think so he's not too far away. Wouldn't hurt to ask him if he'd sell a couple of knife size pieces.

Yep Mom's - and wives - do frown upon sloopy messes! 8o


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  #12  
Old 09-05-2004, 12:13 PM
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Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
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Kyle,

I've got some 1/8" 1080 stock I can cut up if you want to try a couple of pieces. Just let me know.

Chris
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2004, 12:24 PM
kyle juedes kyle juedes is offline
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How much would it cost me. That would be AWESOME if you could get me some, just let me know the cost.

If you want you can email me at : k.juedes@verizon.net


Thanks,
KJ
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2004, 12:30 PM
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Chuck Burrows Chuck Burrows is offline
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Chris- Apparently your move went OK since you can find it!


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The beautiful sheaths created for storing the knife elevate the knife one step higher. It celebrates the knife it houses.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2004, 01:02 PM
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Chris Daigle Chris Daigle is offline
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Kyle,

Don't worry about the cost. It's on me. People like Chuck from this forum have been very generous to me in the past in both materials as well as information. Just send your mailing iformation to c_daigle@sbcglobal.net

Chuck, we are still building the new house, THAT is the only reason I can find it! I can't wait to get into my new shop!!! Dust collection system! Woohoo!

Chris
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