Cold rolled steel, bed frames

Sorry, I was gonna keep my big mouth shut but I can't. Chris, you are basically repeating the party line and I have no doubt you believe it. But your belief only makes it true for you. Lamnia does not strike me as a nutcase at all and equating his beliefs with extraterrestial kidnappings is not fair. It is not fair to Lamnia nor is it fair to you.

Parts of the CIA are not clean, parts of the CIA are clean. Lamnia is aware of a dirty part, you aren't.

Be good


ghostdog

In keeping with fairness, I ask for any reputable source on anything we've done illegal in the last three decades. In all fairness, I have trouble believing that a high school kid (no personal offense, Lamnia, take this broadly please) has direct knowledge of illegal doings in my business place that someone working here wouldn't. My rant is not a party line, but a genuine belief in the quality of people and work that's found here. I understand that our secrecy makes it hard for people 'on the outside' to believe anything we say, but despite all the popular culture and mythology surrounding three little letters (cia), there's a lot of Honest-To-God hard work, sacrifice, and integrity here. Anything that corrupts that is quickly rooted out. We have lawyers in the most unusual places, just to make sure everything is on the up and up. Again, this is my opinion, my observation, and I'm here. I find it hard to accept that people who have no knowledge of the inside workings of an organization can make such broad statements, and nobody challenges it.

Let's put a knifesmithing spin on it. This would be equivicol to my making the claim that the ABS is funded through drug smuggling. Perhaps I read an article in a paper somewhere, where a reporter suggested that such a thing is true. If I never went to the ABS, or asked anyone inside it what was really going on, how would I know what the truth is? Now, it is true that I don't know much about the ABS because I've never been to a meeting, never spoken directly to anyone who's a member about it, and so I do not wave around such statements because they are likely not true, and they're inflammatory to boot. It is unfair for me to talk about what I do not know.

Give me one shred of evidence (not speculation, not personal opinion) that we're guilty of what Lamnia says, and I'll shut up forever more, tail between legs, and I'll even make him a knife for the effort.

It's funny how nobody beats up on the military, 'cause we all know their work is honest and their cause is just. But just because I work where I do, I must be dirty or ignorant of those who are. How could my coworkers keep a secret from me, but not a kid in Florida... I'll have to think about that.

Ghostdog, if you re-read my post, I do not claim Lamnia is a nutcase. I said the source of his beliefs generally come from the same sort of publications. The two are not the same. He has a right to believe whatever he wishes, and I wish him well. But to say I cannot defend the integrity of my organization because some kid (and again, Lamnia, this applies to ANY kid / minor / underage person and is NOT a personal attack) says it's so, is just wrong.


I'm going to qualify myself once here: I love this forum, and the opportunity to argue and share knowledge. I really really hope that todays strong words haven't turned anyone off from that worthy goal. I intend to keep participating, and in the future, I'll try my best to keep my discussion knife related. I am terribly sorry if I've offended anyone or their beliefs. My reality is one defined by facts and truth, not opinions and blind accusation. You are free to disagree with me, and it's no skin off my back, although I do find it unfortunate that people don't trust their fellow Americans who happen to be working their butt off to make this country better and safer.

For the International community: My comments about America, Americans, and 1st Amendment rights were directed to the other American participants here. I did not intend to marginalize you, as it seems I have upon re-reading my posts. Furthermore, please be assured (again, it's just my word) that I'm not using this forum for anything nefarious. Knifesmithing is a personal passion of mine, and is not in any way connected to my work, except that I occasionally have opportunity to make posts from an internet terminal here when the mapmaking work is in a slump (today is a prime example). I have no trouble making the separation; I hope you don't either.

It is utterly amazing how bedframes and springs, got turned into the CIA, the armed forces (which I highly commend for the freedoms we have) and ignorance. Is this amazing or what.

I have read somwhere they used to reroll RR track into bed frames, this was a while back in the late 40 or 50's I think.

Gotta love a good discussion! And not a shot fired :

Actually, in my fervor, I completely forgot to thank Lamnia for this tip on materials. An excellent piece of information, probably useful to many. Thanks for the tip, Lamnia. I do look forward to more.

I think I've learned something today. I need thicker skin and a quieter mouth. And more time at the forge.

Lamnia,
Thanks for the metal tip.

Prizzim EVERYONE knows how the CIA funds itself. They get the guys from the remote viewing group to pick lottery numbers. Sheesh, thought it was common knowledge that every state lottery is actually a CIA front run by Alien Elvis impersonators.

BTW, I studied Latin in my Po Dunk Alabama Jr High, many moons ago. Very little help in the real world.

Will
Legionnaire for Pax Americana

Yes, make no mistake about it, Cyberspace is it's own country, and, one "ruled," for lack of a better term, by the good (or bad) intentions and behavior of it's citizens--which is the best way, I think.

Many people are afraid of what's being called "globalization." Alot of the fear depends on the meaning assigned to the term. Some aspects of globalization are indeed scary, like the idea of domination of the planet or the exploitation of its resources by either power hungry politicians, intolerant religious zealots or greedy corporations. But in some instances the globalization of the planet has many positive potentialities--like the paving of the way to meet and know people from all over the world. Many of the relationships I have developed by my time in cyberspace have proved to be quite meaningful and rewarding, and, I would have not otherwise had them if cyberspace did not exist, or had I not had access to it. That goes for the world at large and even in my own country.

That said, the internet, while a great tool if used correctly, is no substitute for real face to face encounters. My travels have given me many opportunities to experience first hand other cultures and peoples. It has greatly reinforced the notion that I am indeed a very small fish in a very large pond.

Coming to an understanding and appreciation of other cultures is a remarkable thing, and one I would wish on everyone. As we become more and more globalized--and it's going to happen, like it or not--having that kind of knowledge will prove to be a very useful tool.

Another thought about language. In it's own right, knifesmithing is like a language. Granted it has no dangling modifiers, but when I was in Mexico last summer, I met a Zapotec Indian smith. He spoke Spanish, and while my Spanish is not to the point of fluency, yet we communicated through fire and steel. While we may not know or understand many things about each other, we both shared the same forge and we both pounded metal. It was a great experience, which brought two otherwise complete strangers together--free from national, political, or religious biases, and created a special type of bond that will exist as long as the two of us remain alive.

That's one of the reasons I really love this forum. So many people of diverse backgrounds, cultures and beliefs can rally around one unifying theme--the appreciation for and the making of blades.

We are all world citizens, and citizens of our own countries at the same time. It's the first time in the history of the planet that this phenomena has taken place. With it there are great opportunities and rewards, and at the same time, great responsibilities and challenges. Thankfully we have things like fire and steel to bond us together into a brotherhood, so all the other things which separate us, don't seem as important as they do to so many others. Forge on Brothers--wherever you are.

Prizzim;
I think everyone knows what you really mean when you say you need more time at the forge. Really it as a secret lab where you manipulate metals under controled environments to please your own twisted (or ladder patterened) desires. But hey if you want to call it a "forge" well then so be it :evil:
Paul

Sheesh - I haven't even figured out forge welding yet. And if the lotto were at my fingertips, why would I be spending 9 hours a day sitting on my backside when it's 85 outside with a breeze, not to mention a bag of charcoal to be opened?

You guys are too cool. Bedframes - who would have thought it.

You see, it all comes back to knifemaking.

Hey Chris, I am the last guy to take offense to what anyone says no matter how hard I disagree. I love good debate and the other view. As a canuck I have a bit different outlook than you as a yank do. In Canada we had the CIA experimenting with LSD at a certain university, in secret.

Anyway as far as dirty tricks go, if you are interested, look for Peter Dale Scott, Michael Rupert, and possibly the CIA's own Inspector General's report.

Peter Dale Scott is a Professor at a University in California.
Michael Rupert is an ex LA cop. Try:www.copvcia.com.
And you know who your inspector general is.

Chris anymore and lets take it off line.


ghostdog

Aw, y'all don't have to go off line. I'm not the Forum sherriff--unless things get out of hand. If you occasionally get off topic, that's cool. Like I said, it all has a way of getting back around to knifesmithing anyway.

Yeah, I heard about the LSD thing on cable tv a while back.

copvcia.com seems to have its ducks in a row, but instead of providing his proof online, he charges people for access to what is public record and available on our site, if you dig around a little. Also he seems bent on proving a point and then looking for evidence, instead of examining facts and then drawing a conclusion. Around here we call that 'bias', but then he isn't held to impartial methodology, either. I didn't read his whole site (that would probably take a while), but I'll look into it more closely. At the moment, it seems there are two schools of though: CIA is innocent of drug trafficking, or CIA is a proponant of drug trafficking. Since we have a well-staffed COUNTER-narcotics center, I'm guessing that the accusations have outgrown what might have been a simple difference of perception - a phrase gets read differently by one group than the authors intended... happens all the time around here, it seems.

Back to the knife steel, may I ask for clarification? Is it the metal inside the mattress itself we're talking about, or is it the frame on which the mattress rests? Or, might both be suitable? Springs, of course, seem like they could be welded up into a nice billet, probably resembling cable damascus in look and feel. Soon as I can weld consistantly, I'll give it a go.

Long Live Free Speech.

That might be comparable to some of Larry Harley's 'Wad stock'. Wad up a bunch of them bed coil springs between two flat pieces of barstock and hammer down! It would be tricky to get it all to stay together but might be worth a try. Maybe just compressing the springs between the barstock would work. Tie it all together with bailing wire or even bolt it together. You might come up with something interesting. but I'm betting you'd burn out the carbon in the springs before you got it all welded up. But with carbon migration from the bar stock.............

But now them bed rails or frames. I don't know much about them but I do know that the ones I've tried to drill through without annealing was just about impossible and a real bit breaker. I don't know if thats because of junk in the steel or if it's high carbon steel that's been fully heat treated. I would suspect the trash though because how good of steel would you really need for a bed frame? It will remain a mystery to me until I get desperate for steel. I don't have any bed frames to play with but I won't turn one down if I get the chance to get one.

And I don't know anything about the CIA so I'm staying out of that one. He he. But thanks for standing tall and confirming your belief in our country and it's basic social structure Chris. I never would have knowed you was a spook unless you fessed up to it. I'm glad you're on the payroll for what it's worth.

As to Lamnia Artifex's statement about 'our country being a joke', I have a comment on that one that a few people seem to have missed. The way I read it he should have said 'our country's educational system is a joke'. Go back and re-read it and you'll see what I mean. Taken in the proper context I agree completely with the idea he's trying to present here. But I still can't figure out what speaking spanish, french and Latin, the CIA and being in the military has to do with bed frames

Wow, what an interesting thread. From beds to alleged shady CIA dealings to language and the military and the American educational system! Why I do believe there is something here for everyone!

First I'd like to reiterate Chris' question about beds frames. Are we talking about the angle iron support structure with the rollers on the bottom? If so I almost got rid of several recently!

I dream of the day I finally get to visit foreign countries. I am also constantly asked by people I know "Why, we have everything here in America you could want?" That's just your average American's overinflated idea of themselves talking. I've found that Americans in general are woefully ignorant of other countries, cultures and even of world geography in general. Until I get to travel (raising kids takes WAY more of my income than I ever thought it would!) the internet is a truly wonderful place to meet people from around the world. With the help of several "penpals" from France my wife is becoming very fluent in French through email. We've encouraged our children to have foreign penpals also and they communicate with a class from Malaysia as part of their homeschooling.

America is a truly unique and wonderful place. We've only been around for a short time however, and it's only through the influx of new ideas and viewpoints that we will remain a great nation. My thanks go out to all the millitary personel who help protect not only this nation but also the populations of other countries. I can only hope that our country continues in this vein when those countries lose their strategic value (because of location or the fact that they produce vast amounts of oil).

Every organization that has any kind of power structure has some level of corruption. That's one of the basic truths of human nature. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Open skepticism of motives or of "official" policy is the only thing that keeps the people who believe that their "way" is the only way at bay. The open mind is one of the most important criteria for a civilized human being, fanatics of any kind (religious or political) need not apply!

Well, I could ramble on but there would be little point. Let's talk about knifemaking and bedsprings!

So how about it, are the angle iron frames 1070 or something similar?

By the way my lovely wife Juliane wants me to include this thought that she saw on a bumpersticker: "God wants spiritual fruits, not religious nuts!"

Guy Thomas

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

That's why there's something called Congressional Oversight, Executive Oversight, Office of General Counsel, and the Inspector General. None of whom report to our boss directly, except the General Counsel lawyers who make sure we're not breaking any laws.

Really, guys, we're just trying to do the best job we can with the tools we have. Nobody's out looking for ways to do things outside the law. It's just too much work.



Wadd Stock, eh? I'm gonna have to give this a try when I get my hands on an old mattress. Maybe use the angle iron of the base frame, wad up some spring material, and sandwich it together. Once welded, fold with a thin slice of L6 in the middle and begin the billet process. Even a nice maidenhair would probably look pretty cool with this mix.