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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:16 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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NEW stuff

hey guys so i just received package off some inswool, satinite,itc-100,and bubble alumina. As i have said before the forge i have i got like about 2 months ago maybe and it is my first propane forge. So when i got this one there was just inswool on the inside no coatings. So i plan on replacing the inswool and adding the coatings but being first time ill be doing this i have a question. Now say i put a new 1inch blanket of inswool then coat it with satinite itc-110 on the top 2/3 and bubble alumnina on the bottom 1/3. Now once i do that is it possible to pull that blanket out and put it back in or do the coatings make it real hard like cement where i couldnt get it out and back in with out ruining the blanket and coatings. The reason i ask is because i am hoping that the coatings will help bump the temp. up just a lil bit but if i try that and it doesnt work i was thinking of taking that blanket back out and adding another 1 inch of inswool so it equals 2 inch but if i just put another piece in on top of the first one the coatings would be sandwiched between the 2 and not do anything so i would have to take the one i am going to coat back out and add the extra inch and put the coated one back on top. Would that work or would the coating crumble and crack and rip at the inswool if i try and move it too much.
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:23 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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oh yeh i was reading instructions again and it says to put this on with a paint brush. is that the best way i thought i read somewhere that you can thin it out so much and put it in a spray bottle and spray it on. probilly need more coats that way tho.....if a brush is best whats better or what do you use a bristle brush or a foam brush?
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:56 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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Once the wool is heated it becomes pretty firm and somewhat brittle. After that, you can't get it out of the forge without tearing it up. So, if you put in new wool and all those coatings and then decide on a second layer of wool, just put in the second layer of wool and re-coat it.

I like to use Satanite at about the thickness of a good latex paint. At that thickness I doubt you can get it to work in a spray bottle. It isn't rocket science, it's just a little binder to hold the wool, so any brush will do . And for Pete's sake, let these various layers dry before you fire up the forge. Technically, you don't have to dry it but it will crack less and smell a whole lot less if you dry it first ....


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Old 09-16-2015, 03:39 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok....instructions for satinite say let dry for a few hours then fire up forge in small intervals till it cured....i was thinking of painting on one coat tonight and letting it dry over night and tomorow putting on another layer. should i fire up the forge between the 2 layers to make sure its all dry after sitting all night? and also over the satinite i was going to put itc-100 and bubble alumina. in that case since something is going on top of the satinite would i even need the 2nd layer of satinite. well i know i wouldnt need it but would it be helpfull at all? maybe i shouldnt even bother with the 2nd coat since other stuff going on top anyway. i just rememer reading somewhere that you should try and shoot for a 1/4 inch layer of satinite but i dont think they were planing on adding the others
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2015, 07:46 PM
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If I were going to try for 1/4" of Satanite I would mix it thicker like clay and trowel it on. Trying to get 1/4" by painting it with it as thick as latex paint would probably take a few weeks at least. I think what I'm trying to say is save yourself everybody else a lot of time by picking one source of info and doing what they say instead of playing mix and match. Any and all of these various methods work if you follow them start to finish but taking side trips is practically putting you in grid lock.

My advice: paint it on, one layer is enough but two is ok too. The rest goes on as discussed earlier. Heat it wet or let it dry - both ways work but the results are slightly different (wet stinks and cracks and can even pop off if its too thick and traps water). Stop worrying and do it, it's almost impossible to do it seriously wrong ....


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Old 09-17-2015, 09:37 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok that makes alot more sense i have always read 1 or 2 coats painted on as you said but when i read that you should make it 1/4 in thick i was kinda confused how that can be achieved by painting it on....sorry i just dont want to screw it up somehow as i have enough inswool i am not sure how much of the itc and bubble alumina i will have left if i need to redo it i think ill be ok didnt have time to start last night but i am going to go start in a few mins. thanks for clarifying that they were 2 different methods i thought it was one and didnt see how that would work well
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2015, 01:20 PM
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ok so i coated the wool in satinite with a paint brush (thanks ray) i am going to let it dry and then add another coat before i move on to the other coatings (itc-100 and bubble alumina) how ever i realized i definitely have enough of these materials to build another forge. i also got some fire bricks (soft) so i might build a 2 brick mini forge just for the hell of it. Other than that i was thinking since i already got a decent horizontal forge why not build a vertical one and build a burner for it (that way ill have the burner that came with the one i have and ill have a homemade venturi style burner). I have read alot about them seems they have positives and negatives just like any thing else. But i cant find a complete set of plans or designs or video instructions or anything like that i keep finding a lil info here and there. But cant find complete plans. I have no problem substituting one thing for another or adjusting something as the build goes but i want to see some complete plans or as close to complete as possible so i can understand how the whole thing works or at least the parts that differ from a horizontal forge...i am not going to start this project today or anything but i would like to do a lil of the research on it so when i pull the trigger ill have everything mapped out right.......if any one knows where to find a plans, designs, or any info at all it would really be appreciated
thanks
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2015, 02:19 PM
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A vertical forge isn't much different than a horizontal forge stood on its end. You've seen them so you know where the door goes. The burners are the same. The bottom is any design you can manage that allows you to clean out the flux that falls down there. You'll need a grill or something to support your blade or billet so stainless rods are good, or strips of brick if you can cut them.

I have a video on forge building that would be useful for burner design if nothing else. I build several forges on the video but not a vertical but its cheap enough that it looks like you'd get your money's worth anyway ....


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  #9  
Old 09-17-2015, 08:01 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok, yeh i havent been able to find any pics or video of the actual inside of a vertical one (when its NOT burning) to kinda get a idea of where best to place things meaning how far from the bottom the burner should be and the grill to support work. From what i can assume the burner would be just a couple inches from the bottom put in at a tangent and maybe angled slightly upwards? Also i have seen ones that have a door in the side as you were saying and i assume the grill would go either at that level or maybe a lil bit lower? Lastly i have seen some with just the door on the side, some with a opening on the top instead (wich to me looks like a good way to get burned), and some with both. I am thinking that even if you put a door in the side you would need at least a lil hole in the top to vent either that or leaving the door open to vent a little dont know what would be best. I think this will be alot of trial and error type of work but thats of i am up for it. I know with all my questions it would seem that i dont really know that much mechanically but i think i am pritty good with my hands and have some skills but i have never really played with any forge work before this. Going to give it a try and see what happens probilly trial and error with placement of burner vent and grill but i always say at the very worst its a learning experience.

Any way Ray, whats the deal with your video you were talking about? sounds helpfull and i have read other people mentioning it on the forum and its always good reviews. i probilly gota wait till the 1st of the month to have any extra funds but let me know
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2015, 08:40 PM
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I moved the video thread up to near the top of this forum, should be hard to miss ...


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  #11  
Old 09-18-2015, 01:25 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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took a look looks nice and seems like a lot of info from looking at the menu pics nice price to i thought is was going to be more than that. give me a day or 2 and yould be getting a order from me. where do you ship from and what service you use (usps, ups, fedex)?
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2015, 02:09 PM
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Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
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I ship from Wauconda, WA by postal service ...


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  #13  
Old 09-19-2015, 06:23 PM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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Hey ray, or anyone looks here is a link to the forge i had got

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-A-Made-P...item35f0b0fbfb

they also sell just the burner here

http://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-made-Gas...item35f07d9de3

ya know how i said it seems like it just barley gets to weld temp...well i followed your advice and turned the billet over on its side again and gave it a good lil beating and no layers opend up so i guess the weld was good and that was before i had the coatings (still in process of putting coatings on as i have been letting each layer dry over night and fireing before the next layer) so that can only make the forge perform a lil better. well anyway if you can take a look at the links above and check out the burner i am wondering if that burner will be able to forge weld in a small vertical forge. i was planing on making this vertical forge out of a 7 in. pipe with a layer of insulation on the inside. i have 2 ft of this pipe so i could cut to length. Alot of what i have seen with vertical forges either have a "blown burner"( wich i know next to nothing about) or a trex or similar burner. I am trying to see if this burner i have would be up for it or if i need to get a new one (in that case i will make one). i can email the maker and get more info on the burner if needed. if this burner wont be up for the job i wanna know before i start the vert forge so i can do the burner first. i dont know if there is and rule of thumb or chart somewhere on how many BTU's would get certain size ranges to certain temps...if the case just point me in the right direction and ill try to figure it out. Thanks man i know ill get good feedback one way or another.
also ray you will recieve a order from me on wendsday just so ya know

thanks again
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  #14  
Old 09-20-2015, 08:32 AM
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Looked at your links and you have no idea how badly you need my video! I can see why your forge isn't as hot as you think it should be. My advice is stop spending money on forge parts until you watch the video....


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  #15  
Old 09-20-2015, 09:12 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
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ok i would have already have goten one already but i need to wait until Wednesday for more funds to come through. i know the video is a very reasonable price just whats on my card with paypal ill get a charge if i take any more.....i might be able to do it a different way ill let ya know.......
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