MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > The Outpost

The Outpost This forum is dedicated to all who share a love for, and a desire to make good knives, and have fun doing it. We represent a diverse group of smiths and knifemakers who bring numerous methods to their craft.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-10-2006, 04:09 PM
toddhill toddhill is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Arizona
Posts: 827
Joy of Sharpening

I spent some time this morning sharpening five of my wife?s kitchen knives. Three of them were cheap Chinese stainless blades, one was a Cutco paring knife and one was one of my own knives out of 5160 steel. Of course the last one was my favorite to work on. The rhythm of the sharpening brought me a surprising sense of calm and peace. It surprises me that something so simple and seemingly insignificant can have such a profound effect on me. Stresses disappear as the blade moves over the stone. I learned to sharpen well at my class with Tai. I don?t have the different stones and surfaces he has, but I quickly found out my limited selection puts a keen edge on the blades. Liberally spraying on wd-40, I started with the double-sided Norton stone. Tai taught me to get the correct angle and then move the knife in a circular motion over the stone. Then he showed me how to feel for the burr. I stone for awhile and then feel. The burr comes first to the tip and gradually to the rest of the blade. The wd-40 keeps the stone cutting sharply. Once the burr can be felt along the entire edge I flip it over and do the same to the other side. Then I turn the stone over to the fine side. Then I switch to the honing stone. It?s a wedge-shaped, light cream-colored natural stone?I?m guessing some kind of Arkansas stone. Tai had one very similar that he had mounted on a block of wood. He put an angled surface on the block so the stone would be level when he used it. The honing stone really polishes the edge. It?s harder to feel the burr now. Finally I move to the strop. Tai had an interesting and effective stropping setup. It was nice and wide. He glued a thin layer of cork to a board and then some thick smooth water color art paper on top of the cork. Then he smeared some polishing compound on the paper. He had two sides to the polishing board?fine and finer. I glued two pieces of thrift store leather belt side by side to a board and got some fine valve polishing compound which I rubbed in the leather. It takes the final burr off and polishes that edge until it?s invisible to the eye but most ready to cut. I cut myself twice on accident. Once when the tip caught my finger and once when I was cleaning the edge it sliced through the rag and took a nice little flap of my skin off. My wife had some slightly overripe tomatoes she wanted to stew. This provided the perfect test. The blade sliced cleanly and effortlessly through the tomato. Besides the calming rhythm of the sharpening, there is also now the reward of seeing my wife happy as she puts the edges to good use in the kitchen. Makes me want to spend more time sharpening. Todd

(I know this is pretty basic stuff to most of you, but learning to do something well for the first time is pretty exciting.)

Here is my basic sharpening setup:

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Misternatural?
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Glad that's working out for you Todd. Julieta is spoiled on sharp kitchen knives too. That's one thing about this knife making obsession that the wives really seem to appreciate,... (that, and the incredibly sexy men who sharpen them).

Last edited by Misternatural?; 06-10-2006 at 06:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-10-2006, 06:08 PM
circlepknives's Avatar
circlepknives circlepknives is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 947
You got thast right Tai! And Todd not everyone can sharpen the way you, Tai and Charlie can. Had Charlie sharpen a knife for me last week, and at one point he shaved his arm to the skin as clean as a razor in one go. THEN he made it even sharper.

Have been working mostly with Brits, and when I sell them a Tai Goo knife, they know they are getting the sharpest knife they have evr or will ever own!

Haven been shown this technique by Tai, when I can get the right stones, etc I will be doing some sharpening of my own!


__________________
Peace

Paul Vandine
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-10-2006, 06:33 PM
Ron Hicks Ron Hicks is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Pea Ridge Arkansas
Posts: 451
Todd I learned the hard way when I was a kid .
I ground a few pocket knives to death .
Most people think a wire edge is sharp.
Just waite till the word gets around how sharp you sharpen.
Ron
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2006, 08:32 PM
Fox Creek's Avatar
Fox Creek Fox Creek is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Lawrenceburg, KY
Posts: 860
That's a very sophisticated approach to sharpening, and I am sure it works well. You guys get amazing results. I guess I am lazy. I usually raise that burr on the Nortons grey stone and then refine it on the red Indian stone,, and go straight to the strop. Sure there is a "foil" edge, but test cut a few feet of corrugated cardboard. This will take the foil edge off and reveal the dull spots immediately. THEN go to the fine arkansas stone or the finer stones and refine the dull spots on the blade, and test again until it will cut evenly from tip to heel. You can, on a good night, see the flat on the edge where there is a dull spot. Then try it on leather. Then go out an whack the bushes and the muddy pallet lumber. Sharpening and testing are a continuum.


__________________
Richard "Cough'n Dog" Mize
www.foxcreekforge.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2006, 09:39 PM
TexasJack's Avatar
TexasJack TexasJack is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 2,919
I remember an article in a hunting magazine years ago in which the writer suggested that anyone who wants to get his hunting knife good and sharp should go in the kitchen and grab a handfull of knives to start sharpening. Like most things, you can't just memorize a technique and suddenly become an expert. It takes time and practice (and even some failures!) And while you're focusing on the job at hand, all the other worries of the world fade off into oblivion (where they belong).


__________________
God bless Texas! Now let's secede!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:00 PM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
why oil stones?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Woodchuck Forge's Avatar
Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 634
I personally feel oil stones are easier to maintain. Japaese Water stones should be soaked in water, or better yet stored in water. Then they need to be kept wet while sharpening to work up a slurry. This keeps the poors open. With an oil stone I just put a coat of oil on it and start sharpening. Also for some reason the oilstone seems to work a bit faster, probably the corundum vs whatever the waterstone are made of.

Richard, If you are spending the time cutting cardboard and resharpening, then you have the time to do the "sophisticated" method. I find it to be faster than any other method and it gets faster with practice.

Chuck


__________________
http://www.woodchuckforge.com
Avatar, Scott Taylor Memorial Scholarship Knife
Photo by Bob Glassman
Chuck Richards ABS J.S.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-10-2006, 11:06 PM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
that is so not true on the waterstones. Well to be honest it depends on what stone it is and some of the synthetic's you have to keep stored in water because they take forever to work. If you find an oil stone works faster than a waterstone then your using the wrong waterstone, sadly not many people have experience with true waterstones.

I do have the link saved from the previous post on the sharpening where tai did his number and that was a very good read. As for material all I have to say is bottom line is it all comes down to consistancy.

The reason I ask about the oil stones is the remark made about the serenity of sharpening. I am currently learning the togi thing (just started) and I find that's been the case when I use waterstones, tho I have yet to get that with any oil stone to date. I cant' explain it and not sure what the deal is on that one but it's something about a natural waterstone. This is actually one of the reasons I got into the whole knife making thing.

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-10-2006, 11:08 PM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
OH I forgot to mention, you do NOT store most natural waterstone in water, many of the synthetics will turn to mush if you do that, it's a diverse world with alot of players and technology out there.

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-10-2006, 11:17 PM
Woodchuck Forge's Avatar
Woodchuck Forge Woodchuck Forge is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Salem Oregon
Posts: 634
My waterstones are synthetic, Stored them in water for years and had no problem. I used waterstoned exclusivley until about 4 years ago and picked up a double sided norton. It worked much faster (for me) so I use it. I have heard of others, you being one, that really like waterstones. It just never really clicked for me.

Chuck


__________________
http://www.woodchuckforge.com
Avatar, Scott Taylor Memorial Scholarship Knife
Photo by Bob Glassman
Chuck Richards ABS J.S.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-11-2006, 08:54 AM
Misternatural?
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I think water stones are too soft for sharpening, at least with my method. The edge actually keeps cutting into the stone and it dulls it. They do cut fast and I use them for sanding and polishing. I've heard people say to hone backwards with a stropping motion on the water stones.

I read somewhere that the black hard Arkansas stones are 8,000 grit equivalent, but there is some controversy over the grit equivalency of Arkansas stones. It just depends who you ask. At any rate you can flip a burr back and forth on a black hard, and the grit and burr is so fine that you won't get a wire edge that breaks off on the stone, even with the hardest steels. The stropping reduces and aligns the "micro burr".

I've used just about every type of stone including the diamond hones, and there is nothing that even comes close to a good natural Arkansas stone for honing and raising a burr. They are getting expensive and harder to find. You have to try a good quality black hard stone with the proper technique in order to fully appreciate it.

Norton combination bench stones are great for course grit honing and establishing and edge, but the burr is way too course for a surgical edge.

For the type of honing I do, the soft Arkansas is the minimum. Then, you can get around some of the finer stones with a couple strops, with course and fine grit compounds.

Last edited by Misternatural?; 06-11-2006 at 09:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-11-2006, 10:48 AM
EdStreet EdStreet is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Columbus, GA
Posts: 1,050
see here's the problem. with *ANY* natural material you can not say it is X grit. X grit is a specific micron size and in nature not all sizes are the same. I am learning tht even grit sizes are really a misdomener.

So another question, what type of stones do you have?

Ed
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-11-2006, 11:14 AM
Blaine Whitney's Avatar
Blaine Whitney Blaine Whitney is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: San Diego-ish
Posts: 448
You know Todd.....you have something there.
I like handling the knife I just made. Getting out to my back yard/shop, lighting an oil lamp and tiki torch or two. A scotch and water and get into my happy place. No TV, quiet, ambient light.
Why is it after a while you lose sense of how sharp they become?


__________________
Be mindful
Practice kindness
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-11-2006, 11:27 AM
Misternatural?
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
From what I've heard they judge the grit more by the density of the Arkansas stones than the size of the crystals. They are quite mysterious. The black hard and translucent Arks are smooth like glass, yet extremely abrasive.

I have all kinds of stones including synthetic water stones, natural water stones, and lots of natural Arkansas stones.

I've collected a few more stones and strops since this picture was taken.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
blade, forge, hunting knife, knife, knife making, knives


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 AM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
? CKK Industries, Inc. ? All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved