Stag color

[TAH]

Hello Steve,

I have noticed that many of your stag handled knives, including the one I own, have a beautiful amber/orange color. How is that color achieved? Do you treat the stag yourself or is the stag that color when you buy it?

Many thanks for your reply,

Tom

[Steve]

I send all my stag to Mother of Pearl Co., Joe Pardue does a great job. I'm not aware of anyone else that will do this treatment to stag.

Mother of Pearl Company, Inc.
293 Belden Circle
P.O. Box 445
Franklin, NC 28734
Phone: (828) 524-6842
Fax: (828) 369-7809
Email: mopco@earthlink.net

When it comes back, it needs to be rubbed down hard with a towel to get the dyeing agent off of the surface, if you do a good job, the stag quits turning your hands yellow about the tme the knife is finished! It's wise to use latex gloves while handling it, unless you like your fingers to be a nice yellow-orange. I love the effect it gives stag.

[TAH]

Thanks Steve. I'm not a knifemaker, just a collector and admirer. I was just curious how the stag arrived at that color. The amber/orange sure does give the stag a nice warmth.

Best regards,
Tom

[Steve]

Originally Posted by TAH

Thanks Steve. I'm not a knifemaker, just a collector and admirer. I was just curious how the stag arrived at that color. The amber/orange sure does give the stag a nice warmth.

Best regards,
Tom

Way back when, say in the 60's thru the 70's, you'd get maybe one or two out of a thousand sets that had the amber color. It still can happen, IF you can find any stag at all, but it's very rare.

Some few like the black/brown and white colored, "natural stag" (Which I believe is dyed too). Almost ALL of my customers prefer theirs to by dyed the way Culpepper does it.

[TAH]

Steve,

Is Culpepper with the Mother of Pearl Company? Are you saying that almost ALL of your customers prefer the amber/orange stag or the black/brown/white stag?

Also, what is the status on stag? Will we ever see a good supply of great stag again like the stag from the 80s?


Thanks again,

Tom

[Steve]

Yes, Culpepper IS Mother of Pearl Co.

Most of my customers want the amber/orange stag. Whenever I talk to anyone who used to import stag, they are not optimistic about the possibility of it being available in the future, sad to say.

[TAH]

Who would have thought that "shed antlers" would become the next "elephant ivory."

Thanks again for all the info, Steve.

Best,
Tom

[rhrocker]

Seems that this Elen Hunting outfit has a lot of Stag. I ordered some a while back, and it was nice, however it was obvious that it had been dyed with something. It was dark, almost black in fact. I haven't worked with any of it yet, I'm thinking that the dye will sand off first rattle out of the box.

[Shakudo]

there was an article on CKD about the sambar embargo which seems to have dissapearred from my links page now. it stated the antler was soaked in potassium permanganite to kill parasites before export and that is where most of the color orginated. the red deer i have access to tends to be a light reddish brown except where they have rubbed the antlers.

[Steve]

Good news, maybe there is some stag out there!!

Yes, I think Potassium Perm. is the std. dyeing agent, also, though I am not sure. I do think that the stag is treated with it in India, whether to color it or to kill bugs, I don't know. B it seems that either way, whether it's "natural" or "dyed," it's still dyed.

Thank you for the info., you two.

P.S. What beautiful rocking chairs (and knives) you make, Robert!

[Chuck Burrows]

FYI - Technically potassium permanganate is a strong oxidizer - not a dye. It was originally applied and is still used as a bug killer on sambar.

I am surprised though that the stuff you're getting has any kind of residue if it's PP? I haven't used it in a long time but I don't remember any surface residue. I and many others who originally used PP, have found that after several years when PP is not properly neutralized and if the knife sees everyday use, that the stag will get "ratty" looking".

On the other hand my preferred method is using Fiebings leather dye and it does leave a surface residue which must be buffed off with a clean cloth.

BTW - Potassium Permanganate is available and is easy to use if you wish to color your own stag - of course so is leather dye. To get that amber/gold color I use a mixture of British Tan and Light Brown - every piece of antler of course is different so the color will vary some what.

[Drac]

Ok, I'm a little confused. I saw some of the dyed stag at Spirit of Steel at Mother of Pearls table (who say they have a renewable supply of stag.) I thought the potassium permanganate was what was applied on the outside and only penetrated a little into the antler and left the inside still ivory/white colored?

I've gotten stag from Elen Hunting that was not treated in potassium permanganate and the outside was no where near as black as the treated.

So I guess where I'm confused is what is the difference between dyed, treated and untreated?

Jim

[Chuck Burrows]

Jim - don't know for sure if "modern" stag is treated with PP or not - they may use some kind of "new" treatment and then again it may come completely untreated these days. :confused:

PP is an "oxidizer" - a chemical that "mixes" with oxygen - i.e. kind of like water which oxidizes steel to form "rust". That's why when using it some parts will come out darker than others. PS I'm not Bill Nye the Science guy so.... 8o

[cactusforge]

I have a lot of stag that came from Sheffield and it has a very dark brown coating on it, I don't think it is PP, it is to dark to use as is. What I do is wipe it down with white vinegar several times and then scrub it off with a wire brush and then start over with PP or leather dye and the dye works a lot better than PP. Gib

[fitzo]

PP acts to decompose the surface of the antler. It essentially is "charring" it in a way, chemically burning the the material the way battery acid will turn paper gooey and sort of black. It is supplying its own oxygen as seen by it's molecular formula KMnO4 where K=potassium, Mn=manganese, and O=oxygen. It is thus a surface phenomenon and doesn't penetrate real deep.

If the coatings are to kill cooties, I wonder if the newer stuff isn't being treated with iodine or bromine??