ivory stabilizing?

I purchased a chunk of older legal elephant ivory.
It is 1 3/8" x 3/4" x 6"
I will be cutting it up and making graver handles that are
1 1/4" dia x 5/8 thick with a 5/8" dia hole through the middle.

I was thinking of having it stabilized through this company:
www.stabilizedwood.com

Should I cut the ivory up and make the handles first and then send them to be stabilized or is it better to just stabilized the whole chunk first? Or does it matter?

Also is this company a good way to go for stabilizing it or what other choices are there for ivory stabilizing?

Thanks for any help guys!
Steve

I recently asked Mike from WSSI that exact question, but concerning wood, and he told me to get the slabs close to the size you plan on using them for. I would think with ivory, if you cut it first, let it sit for a week or so, so that you know it is not going to warp. You wouldn't want a piece stabilized in the warped condition.

Steve- I am delighted to see you here. Welcome.

Ivory is much more dense than wood, and I believe Mike Ludeman at WSSI may even use a different agent with better penetration qualities for it. It is best to cut it *close* to finished dimensions, but not all the way. The stabilizing process sometimes leaves some rough "acrylic bumps" on the surface. You can turn or carve it down to final form afterward.

If you have a big chunk of tusk done (as I have), you are paying to stabilize all the scrap as well, and in my opinion, the penetration is not as good.

Mike is a very helpful guy; I would suggest following his recommendations on preparation.

I agree with the above, Steve.

I've sent them much oversize and then about to 80% of finished size and had good luck either way. I'd cut them at least into pieces/blocks and maybe even drill them before stabilizing.

If you cut them to block sizes, let them dry slowly. I've even put them in zip locks and taken them out for a day, then back in for a day, etc. for a few wks. Maybe I'm too fussy.

I leave ivory at least 3 mo. before I stabilize it, and then let it sit a while before I install it even after that. Maybe because I'm cautious, or just slow. If it came from the coast, or AK, it'll be pretty wet. Dry it out slowly. I would think that it'd be better dry, than wet, prior to stabilizing.

You might get a little color change from the stabilizing. Send him a small sample to try first, just to be sure. Although I'm sure it will be very subtle, if at all.

Like Don said, Mike knows what he's doing.

Since we are on the subject of stabilizing...to what degree does stabilizing help with ivory and mammoth? Does it make a significant difference when it comes to shrinkage? Will it help prevent cracking?

Ricardo recommended to me one time to stabilize my sheep horn slabs. Has anyone done that and how did it affect the horn in appearance?

I personally think it makes a ton of difference in both areas.

If it's not fairly dry first, I THINK that it might still shrink after instalatiion. Maybe the plastic completerly replaces the moisture, however, I don't know.

Bighorn needs it more than ivory, in my opinion. Again, send Mike a sample and specify colorless chemicals. I don't think it changes the color, but as in the ivory, it may have a very subtle affect.

I've got some gorgeous blue and green mammoth ivory I've been saving and would like to get it stabilized, but don't know if the stabilization process would affect the color and I certainly don't want to lose any of the appearance on these pieces. Does anyone have any experience with this, and which stabilization company has the most experience with the ivory in question ?

I know the stabilization chemicals do penetrate all the way because I once had a piece of ancient walrus stablized that had been written on with a sharpie marker. The black mark was carried all the way into the center of the ivory and I could still easily read what had been written on the surface.

I also cut the ivories into usable sized pieces and let them sit around for a long time before using. The "ancient" status of the ivory had nothing to do with it's stability. Sometimes mammoth will shrink or warp more than fresh cut elephant. It all depends on how much moisture is associated with the piece, and if it recently came out of the ground it could have quite a bit. Eventually it will stablize at the "ambient" relative humidity, so if I make a knife in Florida and ship it to Arizona, it may still shrink a little further. I have had further shrinkage in the above scenario, even with ivory that sat around more than 10 years after being cut. Therefore the benefit of chemical stabilization- just so far I've been leery so sending premium pieces. May have something to do with a bad experience I had once with a stabilization company. I sent some premium fossil walrus to them and they proceeded to ruin several pieces for which I had paid up to 200.00 each-I don't know what happened but they split and it looked as if chunks had been exploded off of the surface.

I don't think the color would be affected, but there is that possibility. Once again, send Mike a sample to try it out on.

I' don't know about that other problem with little chunks coming off. Perhaps they were not actually part of the tusk itself. Maybe holes that had "filler" in them, from the ages.

At any rate, it'll shrink less if stabilized. Maybe the color is more important than stability, I don't kow.

Leave them oversize and if they are very small pieces, don't drill them until after, if they are for narrow thangs.

You'll run into quirks and problems with every stage of knifemakeing. You can have a bad heat treat, a rotton soldering experience, failure with adhesives, color inconsistencies with handle materials, holes in wood that have to be filled, lost packages in the mail, etc., etc., etc.

We gotta do what we can do, and do it the best we can with what we have to work with. Stabilizing is a God-send in my opinion. Bighorn and ivory and even stag, if it's not dyed and already has tons fo oil in it, are all helped, an awful lot by the process.

But if you have ocncerns, talk to the man who's doing it and see if he can help you withyour ocncerns. Then get a sample. Even if it costs you, it'll be worth it to have the test done, and then you'll know.

I will just be another to send khudos to Mike at W.S.S.I.

Mike is a great guy, and is very easy to do business with.

Ivory seems to be one of those quirky materials in that one piece could be driven over with a truck and not be affected, and another piece cut from the same tusk could crack if you looked at it sideways.

I send everything natural to Mike, and ask him to tell me what he thinks. If he can't stabilize it and gain benefit from doing so, he will just send it back as sent.

With things like Ivory and Giraffe bone, there seems to be little warpage...but if you ever send wood, be careful. Wood is better if sent in blocks (from my experience). I've had some scales that I cut too thin that warped beyond use. Just the nature of the game

Good luck,
Nick

There are many solutions to stabilize with.Some are for wood ,some are for ivory,ect...If a solution for wood(fast expanding)is used on ivory,for example, the ivory soaks up the fluid and expands during the drying phase,Splitting or popping will occur.The solution is too thick and needs to be thinned.
If the solution is too thin,it penetrates and falls right back out of the grains during the drying.

Moisture is the biggest problem with stabilizing anything, esspecially Ivory and horn.
After air drying, draw a vaccuum on it for a couple of days to suck any moisture from the inside-out.
Heat is the other enemy of ivory.
DO NOT use heat to dry it,and DON'T get it hot while grinding,It WILL warp on you.
A good stabilizing treatment (IMHO) is essential for most
natural handle material.
THE QUALITY DIFFERENCE IS WELL WORTH THE INVESTMENT.

I agree with Gene. The effort and time and expense are well worth it.

I put a set of Zaza's Mammoth on a Dirk for Solvang and it "jumped" off the table - was sold as soon as it was displayed. It was blue-ish in color originally, but the stabilizing process had basically changed it to black. It would be wise, again, to have a test piece done, no matter what process you use.

Zaza has THE best mammoth bark right now I think blackening of blue ivory would be very nice.