MEMBER ITEMS FOR SALE
Custom Knives | Other Knives | General Items
-------------------------------------------
New Posts | New PhotosAll Photos



Go Back   The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions > Custom Knife Discussion Boards > Knife Making Discussions > The Newbies Arena

The Newbies Arena New to Knife Making? Here's all the help you need ...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-28-2017, 03:28 PM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
Question Introduction

Hi all,
My name is Ed. I am 36 years old living in Indianapolis, In. I am happily married,I have a 5 year old daughter and 2 year old son.

I am just getting into stock removal for knives. I bought 72x2x3/16of 1095 for a song. I have made a whopping 2 knife basic blanks. I have not put any grind or heat treat yet. As I am scared of the mapp gas torch and no clue how I am going to grind the belly. I have an angle grinder with grinding disks but I am thinking a file with a jig may be a better choice to make a more consistent grind.

Is generic vegetable oil ok for quenching 1095? Should i put the 1095 aside and go get some 1084?

All suggestions are welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:23 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,485
For one MAPP gas torches are not the best things to try to heat treat with. If you insist on using a torch an acetylene torch with a rose bud tip would be better. The best solution would be pricey but an electric high temperature oven can't be beat. Next in line would be a gas forge.

Vegetable oil is really not a good option for 1095. It's just not fast enough to assure that you will get past the tip of the cooling curve without crossing over into the pearlite range. A steel like 1084 is a much better match for vegetable oil.

Another thing that you could do is get some stainless steel, 440C is pretty reasonably priced, and send you blades out for heat treating.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-28-2017, 04:25 PM
jimmontg jimmontg is offline
Master
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Now live in Las Cruces NM.
Posts: 937
Sawduster welcome.

Well 1095 is a picky steel and I don't make knives from it and generic veg oil won't work, fresh canola does. See the thread about 1095 grain size as it is loaded with info, but 1095 isn't a newbie steel. Also if you are using a mapp gas torch, does it have O2 like oxy-acetylene? If it does you can heat treat a small knife, small. If not, doubtful you'll be able to get it hot enough at 1450 minimum, it burns hotter, but the heat will be spread out with the typical tips those tubes come with. Difficult to get the steel red hot without a good tip on the torch. You will need a magnet and when the steel hits non-magnetic you will need to heat it for a couple minutes past that.

As for grinding, I do use an angle grinder on bigger knives and then finish them with a smaller grinder, or used too, I bought a 2x48 belt grinder and only need the angle grinder for large projects. You can certainly start with the angle grinder and finish with a filing jig and since you bought 3/16" material I would definitely use the angle grinder first.

Buy a $10 DVD from Ray Rogers a moderator here and build a small inexpensive propane forge following his instructions. Also come to Ray Rogers Chat room tonight there will be a few folks to help you and answer questions, which is the best advice I could tell you and yeah, get the 1084.


__________________
Skilled at knifemaking, not a master.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:02 AM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
Thanks for the info gentlemen! I dont have the space for even a small forge. I want a belt grinder, and even for that I will need to find space! The

Mapp gas torch is the one that comes from home depot. It is the small hand-held one with an adjustable nozzle. It does not connect to an O2 tank or anything.

I will go pick up some 1084 tomorrow then and start over. Thanks for the help again. I am sorry I missed the chat room. I totally spaced....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-29-2017, 07:49 AM
Ray Rogers's Avatar
Ray Rogers Ray Rogers is offline
Founding Member / Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Wauconda, WA
Posts: 9,605
You have the space for a small forge unless your work area is smaller than a coffin. I have one that is smaller than a one gallon paint can and it works far better than that torch is going to.

We do the Chat Room every Sunday afternoon and I post a reminder here on the forum every Sunday morning ....


__________________

Your question may already have been answered - try the Search button first!






Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-29-2017, 08:41 AM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
Lol. If it is that small you just sold a dvd! The smallest forges I had seen were made from propane tanks and had the huge torches and gas tanks. I work out of half of a 1 car garage, so everything is extremely cramped.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2017, 02:21 PM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,485
Be careful working with a gas forge in cramped spaces. You need ventilation or you run the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. You could build a small forge on a cart and roll in out onto the driveway with the propane tank to do your heat treating. Or you could use a fan to blow the exhaust out the door.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-29-2017, 06:41 PM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
Would opening the garage door be enough? Or should I still bring a fan to blow the air out of the garage?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-29-2017, 08:20 PM
WNC Goater WNC Goater is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: NC Mountains
Posts: 457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawdusthappy View Post
Would opening the garage door be enough? Or should I still bring a fan to blow the air out of the garage?
Probably okay but I'd hook up the fan and get some air circulation going just to be safe.


__________________
Find me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/gpopecustomknives/

Gloria In Excelsis Deo!!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-30-2017, 01:18 AM
Doug Lester Doug Lester is offline
Hall of Famer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 2,485
I would say no. Not too long ago a member posted about forging out in a shed that he had closed up for the winter. He went out to do some work and the next thing that he knew he was inside on the couch with no shoes or glasses and a killer headache. He could have died. Carbon monoxide poisoning is something that sneaks up on you.

Doug


__________________
If you're not making mistakes then you're not trying hard enough
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-30-2017, 06:39 AM
dtec1 dtec1 is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: putnam county NY ....about 45 mins north of new york city
Posts: 1,255
I would bring it out side,,,,I have built a couple forges (and yes I used rays video he shows you how to make a lil one or a big one same concept) The KEY is to also make a PROPER burner to go inside there. I have seen many people try the torch from home depot thing.....but never seen any one make it work its just not strong enough (even inside a forge). Even if you get the steel to non magnetic most likely you will get the outside hot enough but not all the way through the steel. The forge I am using now was make from a piece of vent pipe 8in in diameter (the chamber is 6in diameter after the inswool or kaowool). This one is al lil over 2 feet long. I made it a long time a ago to heat treat a sword...Its set up so it can use 2 burners but most of the time now I made a "plug" that I slide inside so I can use it with 1 burner and is only a foot long....Point is it doesn't have to be that long. but you do need to make the right burner for sure. So with this forge I have it on a small metal cart that I roll out of the garage. I do have a small one that is much shorter that I can pic up and put where ever I want. So make it as big as you have shelf space for and just bring it outside when you need to. The only downfall of having it outside is you can see the color of the steel inside the forge but as soon as you take it out it looks much darker instantly because of the sun light. Now if your just heat treating a knife that is fine because it goes into the oil as soon as you take it out you only need to see the color IN the forge and use a magnet to check it to. But if you plan on taking it out and hammering it. It gets hard to see the color to know how cool its getting. What I have been doing is rolling it out right outside my garage. Then having my anvil about 3-4 feet inside the garage (just so the anvil is in the shade not the sunlight. So you can see it....Again with rays video you can apply what he talks about to what ever size you need....Also learning to heat treat right takes a bit of trial and error I would agree get some 1084 as that is the easiest. And start there. There are many tests to check your heat treat one of the most important one is breaking the knife on purpose to see the grain. I am sure many of us here are willing to help when you get the forge built.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-30-2017, 04:47 PM
Andrew Garrett's Avatar
Andrew Garrett Andrew Garrett is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 3,589
Welcome! I hope you find this hobby as rewarding as most of us do.

A couple of things:
What is in the other half of your garage? I hope it's nothing that doesn't enjoy being dusty as hell all the time. Stock removal makes dust! All the steel goes into the air and lands all over the place. Since you haven't the room for a small forge, then its a sure bet that you have no dust collection system. Just be mindful of that.
If possible, keep the small propane forge (that you will certainly get) near the garage door. Just open the door when you fire it up. Winter wont matter--its a forge.
If you MUST use a torch, line a paint can with Insulwool, secure it on its side, cut a small hole to set your torch head in, set two firebricks at the mouth to retain heat, and work in the gap between them. That is a poor man's propane forge. It takes about as much space as your computer screen.
I use 1095 and have success with peanut oil at 130-140 degrees. I heat it with scrap steel bars and check it with a meat thermometer. Warm oil is key. I have also used canola oil and olive oil. I like peanut because it comes in 3 gallon quantities for turkey fryers.

Design a knife you like on paper and work hard to bring that design to fruition. That will teach you precision and will help you toward making a knife with the performance characteristics that you desire.

Enjoy!


__________________
Andy Garrett
https://www.facebook.com/GarrettKnives?ref=hl
Charter Member - Kansas Custom Knifemaker's Association
www.kansasknives.org

"Life is too short to waste time cursing a dull knife."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-30-2017, 06:23 PM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
Thank you guys so much for all the feedback and tips!

I have ordered Ray's DVD and will be sure to have questions once I start building it! I will do my best to make a spot by the door of the garage for it. So I can hopefully just pop it outside as needed. (My HOA is going to love that!)

I called metal supermarkets wich is a few miles down the road from my work. They have ordered 6 feet of 1084 for me. 2inches wide and 1/8 thick. I will save the 1095 for later and will try to heat treat with peanut oil once I have some practice!

As far as what the other half of my 1 car garage space is, it is literally lovs of wood. I have stockpiled found wood as I am a hobbyist woodworker as well.

As far as dust collection goes, I have a shop vac, and I vacuum every time the floor starts to get slippery! I make it a point to also vacuum before I start playing with steel as I dont want the sparks to set my house my house on fire from all the sawdust!

Once I get the 1084 in. I will post a picture of some blanks. And hopefully I will have built a forge by then as well
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-30-2017, 08:10 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
Skilled
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 540
I didn't see if you had an anvil or plan on forging your blades, if you don't have an anvil and plan on forging find a Fisher anvil since you live in a neighborhood. The Fisher is a quiet anvil, you won't upset the neighbors like you will will other, more noisy ones.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-31-2017, 03:57 PM
Sawdusthappy Sawdusthappy is offline
Enthusiast
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 31
I dont have an anvil yet. We are hoping to move next yeat so I can have a bigger workshop. Once that happens I absolutely plan to get an anvil! I will start looking at the anvil and reading up. Thanks for the tip!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1084, 1095, angle, art, begginer, blades, blanks, file, forge, forging, grind, grinder, grinding, heat, heat treat, jig, knife, knives, made, make, newbie, stainless, stainless steel, steel, stock removal


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Introduction Darren12 The Newbies Arena 13 11-06-2015 10:04 AM
Introduction uk ken The Newbies Arena 11 02-28-2006 12:16 PM
Introduction jon-boy The Newbies Arena 3 12-09-2005 08:08 AM
Introduction? Metalchipper Fine Embellishment 5 12-01-2005 07:30 AM
Another re-introduction Andrew Garrett The Newbies Arena 1 06-20-2005 09:01 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.




KNIFENETWORK.COM
Copyright © 2000
CKK Industries, Inc. All Rights Reserved
Powered by ...

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
The Knife Network : All Rights Reserved