KITH Preparation Class - Heat Treating

[GHEzell]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

The idea is that everyone who participates will make a basically identical blade from 1084. The blade will be a simple full flat grind, full tang, and finished to no more that 220 grit and have a simple wood handle attached. That's it.

The one troubling variable that is being overlooked is edge thickness, and this will effect almost every facet of performance that you wish to test. If you intend to test the heat-treatment and only the heat-treatment, this will need to be addressed. Other than that, I think this is a great idea.

[fuzzy]

I'll play

[Eli Jensen]

Yes, a thick edge would be a problem. People will just have to do it right

[WynnKnives]

Originally Posted by Eli Jensen

People will just have to do it right

haha simple as that

[Ray Rogers]

That's why I said Eli might have to re-grind some of the blades. It would be better if everyone could grind their blade's well to begin with but that's probably a bit much to expect when we're talking about a bunch of people who have very little experience. They will learn if they get their blade back and see how it was supposed to be done.....this is about learning/teaching proper heat treatment and, to the extent required for this test, proper edge geometry ...

[Electrathon]

Originally Posted by Ray Rogers

That's why I said Eli might have to re-grind some of the blades. It would be better if everyone could grind their blade's well to begin with but that's probably a bit much to expect when we're talking about a bunch of people who have very little experience. They will learn if they get their blade back and see how it was supposed to be done.....this is about learning/teaching proper heat treatment and, to the extent required for this test, proper edge geometry ...

OK, I am showing my ignorance here: If the blade was reground wouldn't that end up affecting the heat treat? If so, would it help or hinder?

Aaron

[Naboyle]

If the blade were to be over heated when its ground it would greatly effect it in a negative way. But if the edge is to thick then these tests wouldn't give you a satisfactory result. But I think Eli MIGHT know how to grind a heat treated blade a lot of guys like Ray HT their steel before they even start to grind a blade

[Ray Rogers]

If Eli can't manage that then it would be time for him to learn too. But, remember, this is only in extreme cases where edge geometry is very bad. This isn't a cutting contest, so if one blade out perfoms another due to superior edge geometry it doesn't matter as long as both perform well enough to validate their HTments. This is also why we aren't putting nice finishes on these knives, the shape counts but the looks not so much ...

[Cowtown]

Count me in

[Doug Lester]

I'm getting ready to forge during the warm months and I have some of Aldo's 1084 in the basement. Give me the stats for the design and I'll play. I think that it will be very valuable to me.

Doug

[Ray Rogers]

OK, here is my first draft concept of the HT knife:




All this stuff is open to discussion, especially in the Chat Room on Sunday, but here's the starting point: a 5" blade, about a 4" handle, with about a 1" ricasso. The ricasso is necessary for me to be able to do a hardness test on your blade without having to go to a lot of trouble. I'm thinking 1/8" steel because that's easy to HT and if you can't do that you can't do thicker blades either. And, if re-grinding is needed the thinner blades will be faster and easier to handle. Plus, they will be easier to break when the time comes. A full size pattern will be provided so that everyone's knife is as identical as can be reasonably managed.

At first, I wanted everyone to use the same steel from a single source and I still think that would be best but I can already see that's a problem. Upon further consideration, it probably isn't necessary anyway as this is not a competition where we're trying to see who does the best HT and therefore want to be sure we're all starting on the same page. This is only to be sure each individual can HT whatever chunk of 1084 he has and the testing will tell us that. So, if you already have some 1/8" 1084 from any source or if you prefer to buy your own that's fine IMO. If you don't have it and don't want to order any then we'll work out a price - probably on the order of $5 - and I'll order in quantity and send you a 12" piece (or whatever you want).

The knives will come to me first. I'll do a hardness test on the using that ricasso area so be sure that area is as hard as your blade. I'll also etch your name on the spine of the handle so Eli will be able to track the knives easily. And, if re-grinding is needed I'll do it at that time to save Eli from having to buy belts. Then I'll bundle them all up and ship to Eli for testing. After testing, Eli can either ship them back to their makers if he has the time or ship the lot to me and I'll ship them back.

That's a start, we'll kick it around more Sunday night so try to be there. Of course, you can throw in whatever you want to say right here too but interactive generally works better for these types of discussions....

[Naboyle]

Just throwing this out there Ray as I'm sure someone will ask. What if someone already has 1/8" 1080, could that be used?

[Electrathon]

Not sure if it will be possible or not... Is there a way to record the chat room conversation and post it here? I know it is impossible for me to be online and participate, possibly others will have the same issue. There will be no way to know what is said (in the forum it is preserved).

Aaron

[NorCal Nate]

Sunday is fix the Dodge day so no chatroom for me.
But I'll jump in on the kith.

Right now I only have 3/16 1084 though.
~Nate

[Eli Jensen]

Well, if I have to grind them, then I have to sharpen them too

But, that might be better. One less variable. It would give better results. I could just sharpen them to a medium stone and a quick strop.