Point forgeing - The Knife Network Forums : Knife Making Discussions

ranger1 · #1 12-09-2007, 10:22 PM

Ed,
when forgeing a point I had one colapse as the corners of the bar were hammered to a point the center became pinched,much like if you pulled the corners of a towel together.It hasen't happened before.What did I do wrong?

cdent · #2 12-10-2007, 12:27 AM

Hi Andy,
That's one of my specialties. I have to force myself to tap the corners of a bar into the bar at pretty much a 45* instead of trying to form the point right away. I also like to knock the point of a corner off on the grinder. Hopefully, others who know better will jump in with real bladesmithing ideas.

Best of luck, Craig

ranger1 · #3 12-10-2007, 06:44 AM

I went out last night after I posted this and figured out what happened.I didn't forge the point I folded a point.

Ed Caffrey · #4 12-10-2007, 07:37 AM

Two places that give folks the most troubles are the point, and drawing the edge near the ricasso without getting into the ricasso. I tend to knock the sharp corner of a bar/billet off on the grinder, then its a matter of gently making a flat, then another, and another, until you achieve the profile your looking for. Joining all the flats to create a smooth radius is the final step in making the point. The thinner the stock, the more delicate you have to be with the hammer, otherwise what occurred to you is the norm. Once that point is folded/pinched, its a tough one to save. Especially on thinner stock. Some folks will even "pre-form" their points by grinding what will be the spine of the blade, and then after forging down the edge, the blade profile kinda automatically is there. I think for right now, just take that sharp corner off the bar prior to starting, and be gentle.....it'll work out.

ranger1 · #5 12-10-2007, 08:08 AM

Thats exactly what happened.I think Ive got it now.

jdm61 · #6 12-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Bill Moran used to do like what Ed said...just kncck the corners off. I saw Dan Winkler prep a bar for a big knife and he pretty much rounded off the end of the bar.

Harry Mathews · #7 12-10-2007, 11:30 PM

First big letdown I got on forged knives was when I got my copy of Mr. Moran's book and saw that he recommended cutting off a corner to create the spine of the blade. I just kind of looked the other way and pretended I didn't see it. Now I see it again here......"grinder", "knock the corners off", "rounded off the end of the bar".

I haven't done it yet, but I guess it's alright now. I've been tapping these corners in, all of them. Man! Dang sure going to have to "knock the corners off" when Charlie isn't watching.

What is the trick on drawing the edge near the ricasso? I bet I've been doing it the hard way too.

Thingmaker · #8 12-10-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Mathews

What is the trick on drawing the edge near the ricasso? I bet I've been doing it the hard way too.

Yes! Please! This is the ugliest part of every knife I make! What is the correct way to get symmetry and bevel without dinging up the ricasso?

jdm61 · #9 12-11-2007, 10:48 AM

Knocking off the corners is not "cheating" per se in the eyes of the ABS. "Preforming" the point substantially is however. BUt if you have ever teied to hand forge out a Moran style knife like an ST24, you can see the value of preforming somewhat if you aren't going to use it for your JS judging

jdm61 · #10 12-11-2007, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thingmaker

Yes! Please! This is the ugliest part of every knife I make! What is the correct way to get symmetry and bevel without dinging up the ricasso?

Start with a thicker piece of stock than you need and reform the ricasso after your draw out the first part of bevel by the ricasso.

ranger1 · #11 12-11-2007, 01:20 PM

I seem to have a problem there too.One side comes out great the other is rather ugly.

Harry Mathews · #12 12-11-2007, 10:05 PM

I guess working in the corners gets me warmed up for what?s coming, but the next time I make a blade out of 1/8" 1095 stock 1.25" wide, I'm going to "knock off the corners". The fun went out of the last blade I made out of that stuff really quick and the fun is why I do it to begin with. The guys that taught me what little I know are the ones that frown on this kind of stuff and then it's all in fun. I'm still in awe at what these guys can do with a hammer and realize that "knocking off the corners" is just a time saving technique. I still tap them in out of respect for the way I was taught and the guys that were willing to spend the time to teach me. I haven't ended up with a "bird?s beak" in some time.

Thanks for the tip on the ricasso. That is what I've been doing. It is good to hear I was working in the right direction. It's not really a problem when you start with thick steel, but upsetting some of the thin stock to thicken the ricasso can be a challenge some times.

jdm61 · #13 12-11-2007, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry Mathews

I guess working in the corners gets me warmed up for what?s coming, but the next time I make a blade out of 1/8" 1095 stock 1.25" wide, I'm going to "knock off the corners". The fun went out of the last blade I made out of that stuff really quick and the fun is why I do it to begin with. The guys that taught me what little I know are the ones that frown on this kind of stuff and then it's all in fun. I'm still in awe at what these guys can do with a hammer and realize that "knocking off the corners" is just a time saving technique. I still tap them in out of respect for the way I was taught and the guys that were willing to spend the time to teach me. I haven't ended up with a "bird?s beak" in some time.

Thanks for the tip on the ricasso. That is what I've been doing. It is good to hear I was working in the right direction. It's not really a problem when you start with thick steel, but upsetting some of the thin stock to thicken the ricasso can be a challenge some times.

The reason I suggested using thicker stock is that upsettig by hand can leave you with the top and bottom a bit bulged even if you flatten it, so you have to flatten on the grinder. That problem will hopefully be solved very shortly when I get my press set up, along with leaving too much "meat" on the tangs of big hidden tang knives because my arm gets tired drawing it out. As for rounding the corners, I only have to do that when using flat bar. Pounding out 3/4 or 7/8 inch round bar by hand leaves the end of the bar a bit rounded without thaving to take it to the grinder.

Harry Mathews · #14 12-12-2007, 08:01 AM

I'd like to try some of the round stock some time. I use what we have on hand, which is all flat, and most of that is not very thick. I did get some 1084 that is plenty thick and some 5160, that I think will work out pretty well too. I do the forging for fun and for now I am reluctant to stray very far from my hammer. So far the investment has not been to bad, but I could see that changing very quick if I started thinking about power hammers and presses. I'm not sure the "Boss" is ready for that yet.....No....I'm sure she isn't ready for that yet.

Carey Quinn · #15 12-12-2007, 12:44 PM

Harry,

Sometimes the 'Boss' or 'SWMBO' seems like a real killjoy but if your's is like mine, she is the main reason we aren't living in a tent, taking showers with the garden hose, and eating beans out of a can.

Gotta love 'em.

God bless them.

Carey

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