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Balisong Discussions Customs to productions, discussions about balisongs/butterfly knives, what's the best and how to do those crazy tricks.

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  #1  
Old 12-25-2006, 06:27 AM
Kuhne Kuhne is offline
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Thinking of getting a Balisong

Which handle type would you reccomend getting?
Im thinking either a standard or skeletonized handle.

Also i was wondering, how much would it cost to just get a blade?
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2006, 08:23 AM
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balibalistic balibalistic is offline
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Assuming you are talking about the "typhoon kit" ,i would reccomend the new version that is soon to be released.it's already pre-drilled and rounded.that'll save alot of work and make it much more comfortable to flip.check out knifekits.com for details and pricing on them.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2006, 10:17 AM
Kuhne Kuhne is offline
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How soon to be released?
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2006, 12:34 PM
BMiller BMiller is offline
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April 2007

(which may mean May or June) if they stay on the same track as the new DDR2.

But seriously, you can do the same thing with the current version and make the holes yourself with the template offered by knifekits.com. Plus you'll have a knife you built.

Bill
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2006, 02:39 AM
Kuhne Kuhne is offline
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Fair enough, btw, are Balisongs legal in America?
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2006, 01:47 PM
BMiller BMiller is offline
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In Texas, illegal to carry. Don't know about anywhere else.

Bill
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2006, 06:55 PM
ExamonLyf ExamonLyf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
Fair enough, btw, are Balisongs legal in America?
Bill is right. Balisongs are illegal to carry in Texas.., and most other states as well. There are states like Oregon.., Arizona.., and parts of New York State.., where it's OK..., but it's pretty safe to say that they are illegal for carry if the blade is 2" or longer in 85% of the country.


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  #8  
Old 01-31-2007, 11:01 AM
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Darrel Ralph Darrel Ralph is offline
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We need to change that law! Pete ... nice to see you here.
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  #9  
Old 01-31-2007, 12:33 PM
ExamonLyf ExamonLyf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel Ralph
We need to change that law! Pete ... nice to see you here.
Yeah it would be nice Darrel... .., but unlikely in my opinion. Changing "Standing Law" pertaining to anything that can be perceived as a "weapon".., would take some serious money and years of litigation.

I've always encouraged younger folks to join the AKTI, in hopes that the future would rally enough support to get the ball rolling in some states that have current restrictions on the Balisong, but that legal authorities perceive as viable targets to challenge existing law (i.e, California wouldn't be one of them....lol).

In recent years, I can't think of a single "carry-law" that's been relaxed or done away with in any state (about any potential weapon).. .., so I do think it's a steep slope to climb.


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  #10  
Old 01-31-2007, 12:44 PM
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Darrel Ralph Darrel Ralph is offline
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Pete,
Your point is well taken. I remember someone saying that if there was nothing in it for the politician to gain that it would never happen. That makes good since to me. I cant see a politician fighting a fight without something to gain in any respect. They are to busy hiding money

Last edited by Darrel Ralph; 01-31-2007 at 12:51 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-31-2007, 02:10 PM
ExamonLyf ExamonLyf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrel Ralph
Pete,
Your point is well taken. I remember someone saying that if there was nothing in it for the politician to gain that it would never happen.
Yup .....that was [ME] you heard say that.., simply because I have to deal with the slime-balls quite a bit.

The whole mess comes down to a pretty simple paradigm:

As soon as any piece of standing law is "Tested" through the litigation process, the first thing any Politician says ~~> sounds like ~~> "Is this likely to lose me votes, or get me votes?"

Doesn't matter a bit if they happen to agree...

If they perceive any possibility at all there could be a backlash (i.e, a crime is committed with the particular implement they supported being "LEGAL").., then there is no way in Hell they will support changing a law that has convictions and legal precedent on the books. They know their opposition will be all over them like killer-bees the first time an arrest is made of a BG carrying what they supported, so they just stay clear of it (even in instances where they happen to agree).

Factually.., there will be many more assualtive crimes committed with Louisville Sluggers in the next year than any sort of edged tool/weapon..., and a baseball bat is quite arguably MUCH more dangerous than a knife in the hands of most folks (especially if they hit .375 in High School Baseball...lol)....[BUT].., jurisdictional records pertaining to Case Law aren't kept with nearly the probative methodology used for implements ALREADY listed as illegal carry weapons.

Hell, if they made carrying a bat illegal back when the "Switchblade/Gravity Knife" laws evolved.., you might now see Little League Moms having to employ a lock-box in the back of their SUV to get equipment to the games...

What faces all of us.., is simply the fact that we no longer have "The Best and Brightest" representing us in the political domain. Very few will buck any existing law that could rock their political security in any way, shape, or form.


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  #12  
Old 01-31-2007, 02:27 PM
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Darrel Ralph Darrel Ralph is offline
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Power Corrupts absolutly Pete.
It is sickening that we cannot get the truth out and stood up for .
Your points are on the money.

Geez if we could change the world!
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  #13  
Old 02-01-2007, 01:09 AM
Kuhne Kuhne is offline
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Well, im from australia, and i think Balisongs are illegal no matter what without a licence, (thats why im getting the blade and handle sent in seperate pieces, cause its legal like that).

But it doesnt worry me to much. I'm not going to need to carry this thing down the street, or in my pocket or anything, cause, lets face it, balisongs arent that useful.
If i needa cut something, i'll use a folding knife or scissors.
And its not like im gonna get into a knife fight, which even then, a balisong isnt very useful for (its a pretty impractical knife). I just want one becauset they are cool.

So if they changed the law, making them legal to carry and stuff, people would carry them around, and believe it or not, there may actually be some stabbings with them. And most things like that are oppurtunity type things,
ie; if im pissed off, im not gonna go home and get my knife and stab a guy, but if i have a knife on me, theres a chance i might stab him.
And theres more chance that i'd carry around a balisong than i would a practical knife, if it was legal that is. Because i really have no use for a knife, so therefore the only reason i would carry one, was because it's a really cool knife.

So therefore, Legailised balisongs may actually lead to more stabbings IMHO.

And anyway, the knifes not as cool if its legal

However, even though, there are probably far more assaults committed with more household items, like bats and other sporting equipment. you have to remember these things have practical uses as well.
And while we cant reduce the incident of all assaults with weapons, the few ones that are commited with things that have no real use other than collectors items (weapons) should be cut down on, even it is by making the carrying or possesion of that particular item illegal.

And it's really nothing to do with politicians, when they say "is this going to get me votes?" you gotta remember, thats what they are supposed to do. Cause votes=public opinion, which is what democracy is about.


However, if you did wanna legalise it, i reckon you're going about it the wrong way. If you wanna get someone to have it legalised, rather than goto a politician to try and get that done, I'd goto a someone like, a police cheif. Because they are actually experts on how doing such a thing would impact on society, or whatever. So if they did agree with you, then they could actually have a great impact on getting that policy changed. Because its enforced by the police, so of course they're the ones who influence that thing, a politician isnt an expert in that thing anyway, and shouldnt have the right to decide on it.

^
^
^
Not sure if that arguement (arguements) makes sense to any of you, but yeah, whatever.
Also, i'm not against knives or anything, I'm trying to get illegal/semi-legal knives into the country.

But yeah, back to the point (roughly) of the thread.
Do you guys think i could get just the blade from this kit?, not the whole thing with blade and handle?, cause just a 4 inch, 5 inch blade, or whatever it is, is legal on its own. But if i get it sent with the handle it becomes illegal (cause its a balisong).

I think it probably is legal to send here, it's just that i dont wanna take any risks about it being taken by customs (thats my money).
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  #14  
Old 02-01-2007, 01:04 PM
ExamonLyf ExamonLyf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
I'm not going to need to carry this thing down the street, or in my pocket or anything, cause, lets face it, balisongs arent that useful.
If i needa cut something, i'll use a folding knife or scissors.
Well you'd certainly get lots of arguments about utilitarian use of a Balisong. I'm not going to bore anyone with the practicality of the design itself, it's been documented for many years.., but next to a WELL MADE fixed blade, the Balisong has the strongest lock-up geometry out there, and is very useful for EDC use (except for the legality issues).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
And its not like im gonna get into a knife fight, which even then, a balisong isnt very useful for (its a pretty impractical knife). I just want one becauset they are cool.
Again, we'd have to agree to disagree. In the hands of skilled practioners (meaning TRAINED), the Balisong is an incredibly useful Self-Defense tool, [BUT] ~~> that can be said for any wellmade piece of cutlery.

I certainly wouldn't advise folks to carry the Balisong for combative or SD reasons in jurisdictions where it's illegal, and having a mind-set that includes "knife fights" is pretty much BOZO-101-Thinking anyway, but again.., there are many ways the Balisong can be used (including sub-lethal). These are well documented if you search around a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
So if they changed the law, making them legal to carry and stuff, people would carry them around, and believe it or not, there may actually be some stabbings with them. And most things like that are oppurtunity type things, ie; if im pissed off, im not gonna go home and get my knife and stab a guy, but if i have a knife on me, theres a chance i might stab him. And theres more chance that i'd carry around a balisong than i would a practical knife, if it was legal that is. Because i really have no use for a knife, so therefore the only reason i would carry one, was because it's a really cool knife.

So therefore, Legailised balisongs may actually lead to more stabbings IMHO.
I'm really trying to follow that logic (above).., but we disagree again. In my humble opinion.., the type of relatively small edged tool one decides to carry, has no bearing on whether it will be used to stab or cut someone. You are focused on a "MIND SET".., not the tool.

If any person is so "pissed" (as you describe above), that they are willing to attack someone impulsively using a Balisong.., then they'd also do the same with any KNIFE they happened to have handy.., and that covers a myriad of edged stuff that is potential lethal (including box-cutting-razor-knives).

In fact, you are talking about self control.., not any type of weapon.

In April of 2005, a child participating in a baseball game in Palmdale, California..., killed a long time friend with a baseball bat. One blow to the head.., following a loss by his team.

Are you saying that if this boy had a Balisong in his pocket he would have stabbed the victim instead???

The issue is SELF CONTROL.., and many behavioral dynamics..., not what he had to use as a weapon. This boy was so enraged, that if a bat wasn't available, it would have been a rock, a chair, a trash can, perhaps a folding knife if he had one...., or any other item he could get his hands on to do harm.

AGAIN.., it's about the individual, not the implement. The cliche..."It's the Indian.., not the arrow" ~~> comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buhne
And anyway, the knifes not as cool if its legal
If that's truly your attitude towards knives, I don't think you should get any sort of knife. We in the Balisong Community have worked long and hard to give the knife more credibilty, and down play that EXACT type of motivation, so if the only thrill for you in owning a Balisong is that ~~> "It's cool because it's illegal".., then please don't get one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhn
However, even though, there are probably far more assaults committed with more household items, like bats and other sporting equipment. you have to remember these things have practical uses as well.

And while we cant reduce the incident of all assaults with weapons, the few ones that are commited with things that have no real use other than collectors items (weapons) should be cut down on, even it is by making the carrying or possesion of that particular item illegal.
I've already stated my opinion on the usefulness of the Balisong. I know a guy that dressed out an Elk with a Typhoon Kit Balisong. Would I recommend that? Of course not.

There are better knives for the task, but are Balisongs "practical"?? They sure are.., and very versatile across design/use domains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
And it's really nothing to do with politicians, when they say "is this going to get me votes?" you gotta remember, thats what they are supposed to do. Cause votes=public opinion, which is what democracy is about.
Perhaps I stated this poorly in the post above, but once again we disagree.., and in a HUGE way on this point.

It is simple to say that "Votes = Public Opinion"...., but also completely incorrect. Vote-getting is a combination of variables, and yes, of course one of those is "Public Opinion". In the case of the Balisong...(which is what we're talking about), the "Public" really has no opinion. In fact they never did!

80-90% of folks that VOTE.., would not know what a Balisong knife was if you showed them one. There is no "Public Opinion" on this piece of cutlery because it was included as "Illegal" in a broad sweep of legislation aimed at automatic knives. People DO ~~> know what an automatic (or switchblade) knife is (vaguely).., and that's as far as the knowledge base runs.

My point about the political arena is pretty simple. Our current political folks aren't willing to touch standing laws with a 10 foot pole. Pragmatically it's easy to see why. If we all made a list of everything BAD that could happen because of legalizing something currently illegal, and another list of GOOD things that could/would happen.., it's fairly obvious the BAD list is going to be a long one (especially when put together by advisors of any politican looking to move ^).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
However, if you did wanna legalise it, i reckon you're going about it the wrong way. If you wanna get someone to have it legalised, rather than goto a politician to try and get that done, I'd goto a someone like, a police cheif. Because they are actually experts on how doing such a thing would impact on society, or whatever. So if they did agree with you, then they could actually have a great impact on getting that policy changed. Because its enforced by the police, so of course they're the ones who influence that thing, a politician isnt an expert in that thing anyway, and shouldnt have the right to decide on it.
I don't even know what to say to that...

Police Chiefs.., or any other Law Enforcement personnel would send anyone STRAIGHT to a local Congressman or "other" legislator concerning anything pertaining to "legality" or challenging a standing law. They DO NOT make laws, and frankly most LEO's I've dealt with simply refer all such questions to the DA's "Information Office".., where they will gladly read you the convictions and case law involved, then direct you [AGAIN] to your local Congress-Person. "Legality" has EVERYTHING to do with politics, and almost ZERO to do with Law Enforcement Officers.

Officers ARE NOT "Experts" on the law. That's not thier job. The number of arrests that are made, then thrown out.., is staggering simply because it would be impossible for any LEO to know how every law has been litigated. If in doubt, and you appear to be a "Bad Guy".., they make the arrest and hand it to the DA's office.

Archival research attorneys at your local DA's office are "Experts". They are also the folks that politicians use to pull case law when a standing law is contested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
Not sure if that arguement (arguements) makes sense to any of you, but yeah, whatever.
"Yeah whatever".., is exactly how the Balisong knife got included (for no reason) in 80's legislation that made the knife illegal. I've examined case law from the period when this style knife became illegal (most places).., and the majority of it is purely "hype", bad press, and the image movies and the media gave "The Butterfly Knife".

Factually, the Balisong knife is not even CLOSE (related to arrest/conviction statistics), to other edged tools that are used in crime...(and it never was)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhne
Also, i'm not against knives or anything, I'm trying to get illegal/semi-legal knives into the country.
This Forum, and no other Forum in the Balisong Community, is going to give advice on breaking Customs Laws, or how to juxtipose laws where you live.

Go to local authorities, and ask where you can get advice on current laws related to edged tools, thier shipment to your locale, and all information regarding "carry".

I have to mention again... ~~> If your sole purpose for picking any item to collect or carry is because "it's more cool if it's illegal"..., please find another hobby.

The Balisong knife has enough undeserved bad-rep already.....


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Last edited by ExamonLyf; 02-02-2007 at 10:43 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-02-2007, 01:23 AM
Kuhne Kuhne is offline
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The police force wouldnt have a say as to what is considered an illegal knife?
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