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Ed Caffrey's Workshop Talk to Ed Caffrey ... The Montana Bladesmith! Tips, tricks and more from an ABS Mastersmith.

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Old 01-01-2008, 08:09 PM
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New Forge

Hey Everybody,
I've not posted for a long while, trying to get ready for my JS test. Anyway, Ed, I really enjoyed our talk at Blade 2007 in Atlanta and the Basic Bladesmithing video has helped a lot. Santa got me everything I need to build my first propane forge, it will be a vertical forge with a dia. of 14" and 14" tall but what I really need to know is, how thick to pour the castable refractory. My Wife, I, mean Santa, only got me a 55# sack of castable and I don't want to start untill someone that knows more than me ( thats just about everybody) tells me that I have enough.
Thanks in advance for the help.

Bill Withem
GooseHorn Forge


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Old 01-01-2008, 10:48 PM
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With castable you want to go at least 2" thick, 3" is even better. For the size body you described, I would suspect that your going to need approx. 80-100lbs of castable to get the job done. If you want to go the Ka-wool route, you can get by with only 1" thickness of it, but using it, I would recommend painting the interior with some sort of kiln cement slurry, or better yet, ITC-100. Either way the money will be about the same once you add the ITC-100 and the ka-wool together.

Remember that if your using a 14" pipe for the body, and want 2" of castable, then your form will have to be 10" in dia. (because you want 2" all the way around) If you want 3" you would need an 8" form. Just don't want you to get caught in the thought that you subtract only 2" and find yourself short.

When using castable, I found that a piece of stove pipe of the proper diameter, held together with duct tape on the inside works well. Whatever you do, don't connect the stove pipe as it was intended...use the tape on the inside of the pipe, otherwise you'll never get it out once the castable sets up. Another good material that I have used is a piece of old countertop laminate material.

Keep in mind that both the castable and the ka-wool have their individual pluses and minuses. Castable is very heavy, will last a very long time, but takes a while to heat up. Ka-woo forges are light,l heat up quickly, but is fairly fragile, and will need replacing on a regular basis.


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Old 01-02-2008, 07:27 AM
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Thanks Ed for the quick reply.
I sort of suspected that I didn't have enough castable to make that size of forge. Now I guess I can either get another bag or make a smaller forge.


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Old 01-06-2008, 05:02 PM
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I like 1 inch of castable surrounded by 2 inches of kaowool that way you have the benefits of a castable forge chamber, lighter than solid castable, longer lived than kaowool, though not as long lived as solid castable but a good compromise and worth it in my opinion on the money you'll save in gas. We all get to like our own designs and all think we can improve on others so you'll have to be the final judge!
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Old 01-12-2008, 10:46 PM
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Question

Ed,

I took your advise and got some more castable so that I will be sure to have enough to do the job. There were no directions with the castable refractory so I did a search but didn't find a lot on it. Could you please tell me how thick or thin to mix it and maybe drying time or cure time, it would sure be a big help. I would like to pour this as soon as possible so I can get to destroying metal
Thanks for all the help
bill


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Old 01-13-2008, 08:39 AM
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Hi Bill,

Mix the castable just thin enough to pour. The thicker the mix, the quicker it will dry, and the stronger, longer lasting the lining will be. Once you pour the castable, take a hammer and start tapping the outside of the pipe, working any air bubbles out. Once you've done that, leave it sit for 36-48 hours. Then, sit it somewhere out of the way to cure. When I used to have a wood stove in the shop, I would sit forges atop the stove to cure. On the stove it would take 3-4 days for the castable to cure out. If you don't have something like that, sit it up on a couple of 2x2s so that air can circulate all around it, and leave it for a week.

When you first fire the forge up, do it easy and slowly. Fire the forge and let it run for a minute or two, then shut it down and allow it to cool. Repeat that several times until the forge stops steaming. The purpose of the short runs is to get ALL of the moisture out. If you just fire one up and let it roar, any water bubbles trapped inside the castable can turn to steam and blow chunks out of the lining. You've worked hard to this point, so just take it nice and easy so you don't destroy all the hard work and effort. Once all the water has steamed off, and all the smell is gone, you should be ready to go for it, and will have a forge that will last a LONG time.

Keep us posted!


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Old 01-13-2008, 09:58 AM
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what kind?

are you useing kast-o-lite 26 or 30 by any chance? if so that stuff is GREAT. just mix it up in a really thick slurry and pack it around your form. as Ed said the thicker it is the faster and stronger it cures. just dont do like i did and think the stuff could be carved like a soft fire brick until it was first fired. so i did not make a hole for my burner of front or back ports. well it is hard as a rock! so i became a stone mason for 2 days with a chisle and hammer. the good thing is i went slow and steady and the refactory developted no cracks and is working great now. the bad part it was hard freaking work!

God Bless
Kenneth
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Old 02-11-2008, 05:20 PM
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New Forge

Well, I got my forge put together and it's had a couple of weeks to dry. I was going to fire it up last week to cure it out, but we had a bad tornado come through Macon co. Tn., where I live, and I couldn't get shop time with no power and all. I did fire it up last night but my #35 mig tip couldn't keep it running unless I turned it up to 14 psi. I changed to a#40 tip and I got it to run at 5 psi, but it sounds more like the space shuttle than a jet like everyone say's it should. I welcome any and all help at this point.

Thanks in advance
Bill


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Old 02-11-2008, 09:40 PM
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If it too noisy, you could put in some concentric pipes in the burner end. Depending on the size of pipe your using for the burner...... cut a piece of pipe 3" long X 2/3 the ID of the burner pipe, and another 3" piece of pipe about 1/2 the dia of that pipe. Put the smaller 3" piece inside the next larger one, then place some small round or square rods between the pieces of pipe and weld them in place..... That sounds kinda funny in print, but all it really is...is your burner pipe, with a smaller 3" piece of pipe inside of it, and another 3" (smaller) piece of pipe inside of that one. You may have to up the fuel/air pressure slightly, but I've used that method to quiet down a number of forge burners. It will never be completely quiet...thats just a by product of forcing that much air through the burner tube.


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Old 02-20-2008, 02:22 PM
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Forge Adjustments

Well, I think I got it. I went a little bigger on the burner tip and everything smoothed right out. I still have a little steam, but it has almost quit. I am really wanting to get back to forging now because a friend of mine just gave me 2 new hammers that he had Ed make for me. They are so nice that I almost don't want to use them, but I'll get over that
Thanks for all the help, and I'll see you in Atlanta.


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Last edited by wwithem1; 02-20-2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: wrong words
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:13 PM
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Hey Bill!

Glad you got the hammers! Hope they work out well for you. Just remember that I made them to be softer than your anvil...that way if you make a miss-lick, you'll dent the hammer face instead of the anvil. Its a whole lot easier to clean up a dinged hammer than a dented anvil face.

Glad to hear the forge is working like you want too! Thanks for keeping us updated!


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