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The Newbies Arena Are you new to knife making? Here is all the help you will need.

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  #1  
Old 10-07-2014, 10:21 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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gap

hello all . well i glued my handles to my tang . now after i got a lot of the handle shaped , i noticed some separation on the front of one of my scales that did not hold to the tang . its on the bottom edge right at the front of the handle .its about 3/32 long . can i do something to save this ? or will i have to remove and put new scales on .
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2014, 11:36 PM
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I'd re and re the handle for peace of mind knowing it's not right , fix what isn't right and be happy in the end, they'll be solutions probably to fill the void and call it good which is an alternative but............
Make it right , you'll feel better in the end, use it as valuable learning curve......everyone's done it or will do it sooner or later.....just my 2 bits worth


Also Don I do have those guard press pics for you , will send tomorrow , just got in


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Last edited by BCROB; 10-07-2014 at 11:39 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-08-2014, 05:08 AM
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I agree. Let it leave the shop as a "patch" job and it will come back and haunt you at some point. Do over, scales are no biggy, just check your flats more carefully.


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Old 10-08-2014, 03:56 PM
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What is the handle material?

Some natural stuff is notorious for warping when it gets hot (buffalo horn, non-stabilized oily woods like Zircote and a few others). It won't matter how flat you get it. If is gets hot, it will bend outward on the hot side.


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  #5  
Old 10-08-2014, 05:42 PM
jmccustomknives jmccustomknives is offline
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Just out of curiosity, did you use pins? did you peen them?
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2014, 06:52 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmccustomknives View Post
Just out of curiosity, did you use pins? did you peen them?
the wood is walnut , it did get hot while i was shaping the handle with my 12" sander.tried to keep it cool with a wet cloth . yes i used pins .no they are not peened .they were grinded flat glued with epoxy .i may have also cheaped out on the epoxy , and put clamps on a bit to tight ?thanks J .
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Old 10-08-2014, 06:56 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCROB View Post
I'd re and re the handle for peace of mind knowing it's not right , fix what isn't right and be happy in the end, they'll be solutions probably to fill the void and call it good which is an alternative but............
Make it right , you'll feel better in the end, use it as valuable learning curve......everyone's done it or will do it sooner or later.....just my 2 bits worth


Also Don I do have those guard press pics for you , will send tomorrow , just got in
i was afraid you guys were gonna say that .i thought maybe there was a sure quick fix .rob thanks got the email today .thanks also crex and others with the response .
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:01 AM
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Walnut is relatively stable, but like most woods, can/will warp especially when subjected to heat and wet as you described. Cheap, quickset epoxy is always a bad choice for serious knife handle attachments (search and read the "Glue Wars" post from some years back). You will always get better results with fresh clean sanding belts and papers applied at slower speeds. And...there's always rasps, files and hand sanding to cut down on generated heat. If you think about all the work you put into the blade, a little extra time and effort on the guards and handles won't seem so bad. Not "pushing" to finish makes a world of difference with the end results.


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  #9  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:00 PM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Walnut is relatively stable, but like most woods, can/will warp especially when subjected to heat and wet as you described. Cheap, quickset epoxy is always a bad choice for serious knife handle attachments (search and read the "Glue Wars" post from some years back). You will always get better results with fresh clean sanding belts and papers applied at slower speeds. And...there's always rasps, files and hand sanding to cut down on generated heat. If you think about all the work you put into the blade, a little extra time and effort on the guards and handles won't seem so bad. Not "pushing" to finish makes a world of difference with the end results.
i dont think its the glue , .this is the epoxy i use .http://www.systemthree.com/store/pc/...FQiLaQodCwQAEQ , i used the 12" sander because i had to take down a lot of wood on a taper profile .i am wondering if i skimped on the epoxy and to much pressure on the clamps ?yes i think i tried to take the wood down to quick as the wood got hot . thanks again crex .
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:45 PM
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G2 is good epoxy , I've also had good luck with the KMS Tool 2 part epoxy Don


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  #11  
Old 10-10-2014, 06:23 AM
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Yep good epoxy. Didn't mean to imply you chose poorly, just a common mistake many make. Clamping too tight can also cause problems with glue joints, due to micro flexing the material under stress. It will always be "pulling" against the joint waiting for that one opportunity to separate. In your case heat and dampness most likely. If your fit-up flats are true, light spring clips are all you need to hold in place for curing out the glue.
On the handle shaping, get in the practice of bulking out most of the unwanted material prior to installation. Use saws and rasps to get down close to size, before final shaping on the grinder. You'll have less dust to deal with and reduce the amount of grinding/heat needed to finish up. A good set of wood rasps will save you a lot of grief in the long run and with a little practice move a heck of a lot of wood quite rapidly saving you a lot on expensive belts.


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  #12  
Old 10-10-2014, 10:01 AM
donnymac250 donnymac250 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crex View Post
Yep good epoxy. Didn't mean to imply you chose poorly, just a common mistake many make. Clamping too tight can also cause problems with glue joints, due to micro flexing the material under stress. It will always be "pulling" against the joint waiting for that one opportunity to separate. In your case heat and dampness most likely. If your fit-up flats are true, light spring clips are all you need to hold in place for curing out the glue.
On the handle shaping, get in the practice of bulking out most of the unwanted material prior to installation. Use saws and rasps to get down close to size, before final shaping on the grinder. You'll have less dust to deal with and reduce the amount of grinding/heat needed to finish up. A good set of wood rasps will save you a lot of grief in the long run and with a little practice move a heck of a lot of wood quite rapidly saving you a lot on expensive belts.
ok thanks again . gonna start to use the rasp now to cut down on heat .
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2014, 02:33 AM
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Hi Don,

Like Crex said, I like to take quite a bit of material off before the glue up.

I like to use wooden dowel for temporary pins and rough out the handle shape in advance of the gluing/pinning job. You get one shot at it, so it never hurts to test fit before hand.

Try to apply a little more goop than you think is required, especially if you are filling in some filework. If the extra squeezes out that's all good. It sands away.

Another suggestion is to add some extra space for the epoxy by drilling a bunch of shallow holes or gouging little grooves in the hidden undersides of the scales. This will increase the surface area and give the epoxy more to grab on to. I sometimes use a drill bit and set the drill press to stop very shallow and make some random holes. They look like 1/2 circles more than holes. Of course you've got to keep away from the edges of the scales. Anything you can do to help the adhesive do its job, extra holes in the tang, cutting grooves in the middle of the pins etc.

Hope this is helpful.

Let us know how it turns out.

Dan
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:32 AM
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I use drill bits for temporary pins and profile as much of the handle as possible, then check the flats after a good cool down.

Good three-point clamping helps too.


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  #15  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Garrett View Post
I use drill bits for temporary pins and profile as much of the handle as possible, then check the flats after a good cool down.

Good three-point clamping helps too.
I use drill bits as well and a good sharp bandsaw for getting the scales close to grip size and shape........ like Carl said if your flats are true just light pressure to set the scales.....more often than not clamps are to tight and force the bulk of the glue out.....I've experimented with extra holes as well but found its just more of a void to hold epoxy and doesnt really add much more adhesion, for added security I prefer Corby rivets, Mr Loveless bolts/rivets or other alternate mechanical fasteners, there are many.......test it for yourself with some sample material...


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Last edited by BCROB; 10-11-2014 at 11:15 AM.
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art, back, blade, buffalo horn, edge, epoxy, flat, guard, handle, handle material, handles, horn, hot, knife, material, pins, press, sander, scales, shop, solutions, tang, warping, wood, woods


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